Arazni in gods and magic

[Kelseus]

Yqatuba wrote:

Yes, but abandoning your best friend in need seems more than just LN to me.

Being unwilling to stick your own neck out for someone else seems pretty Neutral to me (on the G-E spectrum).

[Tremaine]

James Jacobs wrote:

One thing to keep in mind is that Arazni is a goddess in transition from one thing to another. Her current presentation in Gods and Magic is meant to be somewhat confusing and contradictory, since she's not quite where she wants to be but also not quite where she was. I suspect this confusion is bleeding into her religion and faithful as well, with a fair amount of infighting and bickering and cross-purpose goals. As time goes on, her story will continue to be told, and assuming we keep telling Golarion stories we'll get to her ultimate fate.

For Nocticula, her transition from version 1 to version 2 happened mostly "off screen." We're trying to put Arazni's "on screen," with it beginning in the Tyrant's Grasp adventure path. I suspect/hope we'll have more to say about her some day, but we didn't want to magically have her immediately go from one to two because that cheapens the process of healing and the lasting effects of trauma.

Her goals are in a nutshell, though, to regain her own agency and to escape "life" as a pawn or slave or minion of other forces, to regain her dignity, and to help others find their own similar escape from enslavement as well, PARTICULARLY those who have been enslaved by being turned undead against their will.

But she's not pursuing these goals in a friendly, forgiving way at this point.

. Given we are getting multiple redemption arcs for deities, are we going to get any falls?

[James Jacobs]

Tremaine wrote:

Given we are getting multiple redemption arcs for deities, are we going to get any falls?

That's a lot tougher to do, since a redemption arc for an evil deity is MUCH less likely to impact existing PCs, since there are far fewer evil PCs out there.

If we DID do an AP where a deity fell from grace, it'd either have to be an obscure one or a new one, or would have to sync to an edition change or something like that. Even then... that's akin to telling all the fighters out there that "Pathfinder no longer has longswords" or wizards that "We're removing the evocation school."

A deity's death or change in alignment is a HUGE deal, and since it fundamentally alters the way their worshipers worship, taking that away from established play is a lot more complicated for non-evil deities.

That said, there's been several examples of this happening in the setting's history. Asmodeus is the classic example, but there's several others.

If I had to choose a divinity to tell this story about in an Adventure Path, I'd probably pick Ragathael and have him become a demon lord or something like that.

[Tremaine]

James Jacobs wrote:

Tremaine wrote:

Given we are getting multiple redemption arcs for deities, are we going to get any falls?

That's a lot tougher to do, since a redemption arc for an evil deity is MUCH less likely to impact existing PCs, since there are far fewer evil PCs out there.

If we DID do an AP where a deity fell from grace, it'd either have to be an obscure one or a new one, or would have to sync to an edition change or something like that. Even then... that's akin to telling all the fighters out there that "Pathfinder no longer has longswords" or wizards that "We're removing the evocation school."

A deity's death or change in alignment is a HUGE deal, and since it fundamentally alters the way their worshipers worship, taking that away from established play is a lot more complicated for non-evil deities.

That said, there's been several examples of this happening in the setting's history. Asmodeus is the classic example, but there's several others.

If I had to choose a divinity to tell this story about in an Adventure Path, I'd probably pick Ragathael and have him become a demon lord or something like that.

. I have some of those rare evil PC's :p, but yes Ragathiel falling makes sense, as how he hadn't already was a headscratcher (or at least becoming CN like an angrier Callistria)

[Claxon]

Yqatuba wrote:

Makes me wonder why everyone's so sad he's dead if he was such an uncaring jerk. Or why people worshipped him to begin with.

Under this sort of view you might wonder why anyone would bother worshipping someone that is good.

Because other neutral deities are likely to be the same unless they are particularly interested in you because reasons.

And evil is well...evil.

Yet all have worshipers for various reasons.

[Yqatuba]

James Jacobs wrote:

Tremaine wrote:

Given we are getting multiple redemption arcs for deities, are we going to get any falls?

That's a lot tougher to do, since a redemption arc for an evil deity is MUCH less likely to impact existing PCs, since there are far fewer evil PCs out there.

If we DID do an AP where a deity fell from grace, it'd either have to be an obscure one or a new one, or would have to sync to an edition change or something like that. Even then... that's akin to telling all the fighters out there that "Pathfinder no longer has longswords" or wizards that "We're removing the evocation school."

A deity's death or change in alignment is a HUGE deal, and since it fundamentally alters the way their worshipers worship, taking that away from established play is a lot more complicated for non-evil deities.

That said, there's been several examples of this happening in the setting's history. Asmodeus is the classic example, but there's several others.

If I had to choose a divinity to tell this story about in an Adventure Path, I'd probably pick Ragathael and have him become a demon lord or something like that.

I was actually thinking of Ragathael even before I read this, as he definitely seems like the scariest of the good gods