Do monsters with regeneration go through the full Dying / Wounded process?

[hyphz]

The description of regeneration includes the statement that "[the creature's] dying condition never increases beyond dying 3 as long as its regeneration is active".

This is a bit unusual since normally, a monster would not go through the Dying process at all, just dying at 0 HP.

In a recent session I assumed that regenerating monsters did go through the same process, which resulted in a bit of confusion; a PC downed a monster and made it Dying 1. In its turn it regenerated which gave it hit points so it was no longer dying. The next round, it was downed again (to Dying 2/Wounded 1) and then hit with a magic effect to shut down its regeneration, which killed it because of Wounded 1.

However, the next one was downed directly and became Dying 1. The caster immediately hit it with its weak element again and assumed this would kill the enemy immediately but because it wasn't wounded this time, it actually just made it Dying 2 and not able to regenerate for a round. So in order to actually kill it, two other PCs had to hit it that round to take it through Dying 3-4 before the end of the round when the regeneration block would shut off and it would return to having hit points! This made a fairly big difference to the action economy. Is it correct?

[Aratorin]

CRB Pg. 459 wrote:

Player characters, their companions, and other significant characters and creatures don’t automatically die when they reach 0 Hit Points. Instead, they are knocked out and are at risk of death. At the GM’s discretion, villains, powerful monsters, special NPCs, and enemies with special abilities that are likely to bring them back to the fight (like ferocity, regeneration, or healing magic) can use these rules as well.

[Penthau]

I am not sure the dying condition would be increased by 2 if someone who was dying was hit again while they had the wounded 1 condition also. I think that the creature should have only gone to dying 3.

Quote:

You have been seriously injured. If you lose the dying condition and do not already have the wounded condition, you become wounded 1. If you already have the wounded condition when you lose the dying condition, your wounded condition value increases by 1. If you gain the dying condition while wounded, increase your dying condition value by your wounded value.

I would say that anything with regen is going to have to be hammered until they stay down. They should be much easier to crit though at -4 status for unconscious and -2 circumstance for flat footed. That would allow you to increase their dying by 2 per each crit. Persistent damage would help avoid having to take extra actions to make the dying condition increase.

[Aratorin]

Penthau wrote:

I am not sure the dying condition would be increased by 2 if someone who was dying was hit again while they had the wounded 1 condition also. I think that the creature should have only gone to dying 3.

Quote:

You have been seriously injured. If you lose the dying condition and do not already have the wounded condition, you become wounded 1. If you already have the wounded condition when you lose the dying condition, your wounded condition value increases by 1. If you gain the dying condition while wounded, increase your dying condition value by your wounded value.

CRB Pg. 459 wrote:

Taking Damage while Dying

If you take damage while you already have the dying condition, increase your dying condition value by 1, or by 2 if the damage came from an attacker’s critical hit or your own critical failure. If you have the wounded condition, remember to add the value of your wounded condition to your dying value.

[krobrina]

Does the regeneration spell allow a head to be re-attached?

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=248

Quote:

An infusion of positive energy grants a creature continuous healing. The target temporarily gains regeneration 15, which restores 15 Hit Points to it at the start of each of its turns. While it has regeneration, the target can't die from damage and its dying value can't exceed 3, though if its wounded value becomes 4 or higher, it stays unconscious until its wounds are treated. If the target takes acid or fire damage, its regeneration deactivates until after the end of its next turn.

Each time the creature regains Hit Points from regeneration, it also regrows one damaged or ruined organ (if any). During the spell's duration, the creature can also reattach severed body parts by spending an Interact action to hold the body part to the area it was severed from.

Depends how it lost its head?

Death effect no, it's dead. Otherwise yes it can regenerate?

[Fumarole]

The regeneration spell only targets living creatures, so if decapitation killed the target then no, this will not work.

[Aratorin]

Fumarole wrote:

The regeneration spell only targets living creatures, so if decapitation killed the target then no, this will not work.

I believe the question would be, what if you cast the Regeneration spell, and then the creature lost its head?

The only way I'm aware of for a creature to lose it's head, that isn't just the DM adding flavor, is with abilities like Vorpal, which is an instant death effect, so I'd say no, unless you decide that a PC under the effect of the spell "doesn't require a head to live".

Although, now I'm thinking that Leshie PCs should be immune to Vorpal, as they are just spirits inhabiting plants. As the Gourd Leshie shows, they don't actually need their heads.