Regarding Foil Senses


Rules Discussion

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Regarding the skill feat Foil Senses; would this even work against things such as a monster who can detect body heat? I would assume so but at the same time without specifically saying like I covered myself in mud, would that work still?


It's a crazy feat that covers a ridiculous breadth of senses, yet that's what it has to do given what a sneaky monster-hunter would have to deal with in such a setting. I think part of its existence is so players/GMs don't have to struggle with all the loopholes various senses may or may not have.

Take the feat, you know the loopholes and have access (even if unequipped!) to whatever you need to exploit those loopholes.
Don't take the feat, and you don't, and arguably can't find loopholes since none have been openly designated.

And it works every time, as if you take each precaution against each sense each time you Avoid Notice, Hide, or Sneak, whether in catacombs or at a royal gala. Stretches belief a bit too much for me, even if I understand the practicality. I think I'll write it off to the PC having the knack (plot guidance) to know just the right tricks each time and applying only those, but always each one.


Castilliano wrote:

It's a crazy feat that covers a ridiculous breadth of senses, yet that's what it has to do given what a sneaky monster-hunter would have to deal with in such a setting. I think part of its existence is so players/GMs don't have to struggle with all the loopholes various senses may or may not have.

Take the feat, you know the loopholes and have access (even if unequipped!) to whatever you need to exploit those loopholes.
Don't take the feat, and you don't, and arguably can't find loopholes since none have been openly designated.

And it works every time, as if you take each precaution against each sense each time you Avoid Notice, Hide, or Sneak, whether in catacombs or at a royal gala. Stretches belief a bit too much for me, even if I understand the practicality. I think I'll write it off to the PC having the knack (plot guidance) to know just the right tricks each time and applying only those, but always each one.

Survey Wildlife is good for that-- give people insight into what they might run into and they can prepare accordingly.


Fortunately Foil Senses is far enough along in progression where your characters are performing crazy things regularly. It's not quite Legendary status, but it would properly convey what a Master of their craft can do at the peak of their performance.

Bonus points if you require your players to try to figure out how a player is fooling a particularly interesting sense. Tremorsense they can just say they are stepping lightly. But life sense? Or the aforementioned body heat sense? Maybe they covered their body in Mud ala Predator?

Lead Underpants? Vampire Bat wing long johns? The sky is the limit.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Right, example in the book for stealth against abnormal senses says that the DM may require folks to say roll a wisdom stealth roll to slow your heartbeat against something that senses blood or a heartbeat.

It seems ludicrous that the skill feat (that my toon took) is constantly covering in mud, slowing heartbeat, breathing shallow, stepping lightly etc all at the same time.


Yeah, but that's vibe they are going for. Stuff like Batman sneaking up on Superman by just being so good he defies explanation is a pretty established trope, and is pretty explicitly built into legendary feats.

You still need to beat the creature's. Deception DC, so it isn't a gimme, and it only applies to yourself so it seems unlikely to let the rest of the party get away with it. So it seems mechanically balanced for its applications even if it is narratively weird.

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