Venture-Captain, Georgia—Atlanta
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I need some feedback on this as it’s a touchy subject.
There is a player I GM for who’s nerfed their character to be the best at everything, and, quite frequently at the table, they will announce that the auto succeed at either an aid another action or at specific skill checks. As high as the bonuses on the character may be, however, I am of the mindset that you don‘t take an action at all unless you roll (or announce taking 10 or 20, when permitted to do so). This came up in a big way when running SFS 2-12, when they announced an auto success where their maximum roll would have been below the scenario stated DC.
With that said, how would you handle this? Am I right to force the roll or to announce taking 10 or 20, especially if there is suspicion the player may not be being honest about die rolls?
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The DC to aid another is a whopping 10. This is a known quantity to the players. If you have a plus nine or higher, there is no reason to waste time rolling, or waste player/dm bandwith shouting out numbers like "i got a 32 to aid". "I assist" or "I auto assist" is fine because the player knows what number they're going for and there aren't negative numbers on a d20.
when they announced an auto success where their maximum roll would have been below the scenario stated DC.
Since they're the best at everything, I'll assume an operative. In that case, you'd inform the player after they tried taking 10 to succeed on the skill (not to aid) that this was an egregiously hard task and dialing it in wasn't working. Their result fails.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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Player (doesn't roll): "I automatically succeed"
GM: "What do you get?"
Player: "X"
GM: "Explain how you get to X" (or:) "X is not enough, so you fail"
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If a player doesn't roll (and isn't in a position to Take 10/20) I'll assume they "take 1" on the roll. For some checks, where you know the DC in advance, that's fine. If there's nothing special about the terrain I know the DC for a jump with a running start is equal to the distance jumped, so if my Athletics is much higher than that, I know I can just hop over.
Likewise, the DC for Aid Another is well-known, and I'll often make sure I boost skills to at least +9 so that I'll always succeed at the Take 10.
Cutting out these trivial rolls just reduces cognitive noise at the table.
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However, for rolls where the player doesn't know the DC yet, as a GM you just have to stand firm and insist that the player at least gives you the number; and if the player doesn't want to roll, that's a "take 1".
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Yes, they don't need to *roll* to "Take 1," but they do need to tell you what the number is. They cannot *just say*, "My skills are so high, I just know I succeed."
EDIT: You can get +9 at 1st level (1 rank in a class skill, +4 stat, and +1 theme bonus or class feature or feat) and auto-aid, for example. But you can't know if you auto-succeed on a Diplomacy check, even if you know the base table, because you don't know your target's total DC.
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Also, 'force' is not the right term to use.
'Request' is better.
If the player is playing games with their numbers or has undying dice hate (which some people do have), it should become pretty obvious which is the case and which isn't.
Especially when they announce the die roll, add the modifier, then the modifier changes for no reason whatsoever for a different roll. I've caught that a few times and it didn't even require an audit.
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Venture-Captain, Georgia—Atlanta
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As a GM you can audit the character yourself.
That piece, I do know, though I have seen nothing that calls out specifics on audits, other than that they are permitted.
The reason I approached the VC about it was for guidance on an “official process”, should one exist, and so the VC can have other GMs in the area also keep an eye out for inconsistencies and issues with this players characters.
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I used to run into problems with 1e PFS when I was GMing that system regularly, where a lot of players were relying on whatever numbers Hero Lab would tell them, and no matter how often I told people that Hero Lab is unsanctioned and cannot be relied on to be 100% accurate, they would insist that it was still correct.
So, I started doing what Lau suggested: "Tell me how you got to that number." And, sure enough, some people had incorrect modifiers because of a Hero Lab issue.
I have some characters that have some absurd skill modifiers in PFS 1 (i.e. my bard), but I've actually put together a handy reference sheet that calculates where most of my bonuses come from and why the modifiers are so high. If your player is getting frustrated about constantly being asked things, you can simply suggest to them that they do something similar.
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Agreed. As a GM, ask for the exact number--they're not the GM, they can't decide whether they succeed or not. (Letting them determine success for known quantities I've found is usually okay, but can still be problematic for certain players.)
Ask how they got that number--ask them to break it down. If they can't tell you where the bonuses came from, do a quick calculation of the basics, use that, and sort things out after the scenario. A few of those and they'll be able to explain where those numbers came from soon enough.
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There are also some folks who are defeatist to an extreme, and even if they actually have a *really good shot* at making a roll, they expect the 'not success'.
They aren't 'behind the screen'/'in the driver's seat' as it were. One is as a GM.
...also, if they'ved GM'd it before and are trying to make these calls without the sitting GM approval, that verges on cheating/metagamery-think.
Benefit of the doubt until proven beyond a doubt is a safer path.
Case in point, have a buddy I game with every so often that has the worst 'inappropriate' luck as far as rolling.
When it's some sort of 'stupid waste' of a roll, it's not below a 15. When the chips are down and it's something important... it's rarely into double digits, most of the time not even breaking '5'.
...and that's with 'open' rolling, folks loaning dice, new dice being bought at a store and given outright, etc.