Vanguard Build Advice

[Trscroggs]

I'm looking to build a Vanguard for the first time for a PbP table.

So far it looks like the table is leaning heavy on the ranged options, with maybe two characters being able to opt into melee range if they feel the need.

The character is starting at level 3, and all Paizo published material is legal.

My only real preference is that I don't want to play one of the Core or Legacy races. I have a ton of characters with those already. Also I think most of the AP races aren't really appropriate either, due to the nature of the adventure.

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My real issue is that I don't have a handle on the Vanguard's usual turn-to-turn actions.

• Are they primarily Entropic Strike users?
  
• Due they wield one-handed operative weapons almost exclusively?
  
• Do they wield big-two handed weapons and then nuke occasionally with Entropic Strike?
  

[HammerJack]

Depends. If you have solid strength, you can use normal melee weapons for the higher damage output. If you are DEX based, I would use entropic strike and whatever weapons you want to poach properties from (like reach, or thrown, or polarize). There's usually no reason to use operative weapons without entropic strike (unless you need the damage type to avoid heavy physical and acid resistance), because they deal terrible damage, and entropic strike will be better even without spending entropy.

You may also want to take a look at weapons with properties and fusions that work well with combat maneuvers, since vanguards can land those more easily than anyone else in the game.

[Matt2VK]

My observations, not playtested -

Way I like my Stats for Vanguard: CON > STR > DEX > INT = WIS > CHA

CON for Health & Damage.
STR to Hit with and more damage at level 10
DEX all the normal dex stuff, forget using operative weapons to hit with as operative weapons don't have as many nice special weapon properties.
INT is for skills
WIS needed for perception and Will saves.
CHA, I'm a tank, not a face.

Go with Entropic Strike. It's a free, scaling weapon that can do 2 different types of damage (Acid & Blunt and you get to choice to apply both or just one) that attacks EAC. Attacking EAC is why you don't really need that big to hit numbers you get from maxing out your attacking stat.

Grabbing a weapon. Only reason to grab one is that you get to use the weapons special & Crit properties, stuff like Reach, Trip, Wound, etc that weapons have.

Use a Shield or Not? Have not decided on this yet. My issue is to get the best use out of a shield is that it takes a move action to set the facing of a shield. Can think of better things to do with that move action.

Reactions: Be very careful about picking Feats/Gear/Powers that use reactions. The Vanguard mitigation ability uses that reaction and you should be using it just about every combat turn.

Powers: Be careful choosing powers that have DC scale as you level up. Some of those DC look easy at low level but are almost impossible to get at high levels. (Thinking those DC weren't playtested in high level play.)

One major problem with a Vanguard built with my suggestions is they will be lousy at Starship combat.

[HammerJack]

Remember, entropic strike itself has the operative property, so you can take a non-operative reach weapon and make operative entropic strikes with it at reach.

["Dr." Cupi]

Focusing on high Dex and Con to start with can be beneficial as damage dice early on are so close it can be pretty mute whether or not to go operative. Then aim for power armor for the sake of the Str which you eventually get to add.

This seems the most mechanically ideal build for how the Vanguard operates.

[adam morin]

I was wondering what the OP ended up doing for his Vanguard? Because I've looked at the class and it seem complicated I've got that alot of people say to use there Entropic Strike, but what Aspects and Disciplines are a good choice to take? should I be doing combat maneuvers sense they get one for free from there aspects, should I make them good at the maneuver they get for free. Should I be aiming for the highest EAC and KAC I can get at each level or should I be making it easier to hit me for the entropy points. In Matt2VK's post he say's he's not sure about Shields what do others feel about them? As you can tell I'm looking for alot of help pointers and advice on what is good and what to stay away from would be nice, If any posters were feeling extra helpful maybe a build layout with what to take at which level :-)

[Wesrolter]

I think the Vanguard has the potential for being the groups tank. I have one and still low levels but his ACs are 2 higher then our Armour storm. Damage output is close to the same.
My 2 cents, Con is your must, HP and damage of the Entropic strike. The strike starts of low at a D4 but it does catch up to the Solarians weapon early. Dex would be a good investment for the attack rolls, I went for Power armour so I limit my Dex to AC a touch there. Str is good as later you can also add it to damage with your Strike.
As for the Aspects, I would consider what sort you want to play. Look at how each one will effect the battle field.
Boundary: Gets sunder and looks to focus on damage prevention.
Cascade: Sunder and penalizing enemies.
Exergy: Trip and punishing enemies with damage.
Inversion: Reposition and healing.
Momentum: Bull rush and it focuses on pushing enemies,
Reaction: Dirty trick and weakening enemies.
I picked Exergy, I like the idea of allowing my allies to deal more damage when a significant enemy seriously hurts me.
Disciplines I would say its how you want to play, personally I like 'Friendly fire' and 'Entropic shield' so far. The Shield is another cash saver, it allows you to generate a free(interchangeable) bit of gear and friendly fire I like because it reduces damage from allies by twice my level. Not sure how it would play later on, but so far it helps.

I am not a big fan of using a melee weapon with the strike as it can reduce your damage if you don't keep up to date with your level, but thats just me. As for reach, at level 10 you start to generate your own up to 25 ft at level 19. Base 5 ft, with 4 improvements of 5ft at 10, 13, 16, 19.