The language and mechanics of Boons

[Nefreet]

In the PFS2 Guide Feedback thread, Belafon wrote:

I mentioned the redundancy with the advanced boon slot earlier, and clearly the other slots are confusing as well. I’m going to try not to devolve into debate, so I’ll just summarize the concern here. According to the Guide you get:

1 Faction Boon slot which can only hold a boon with the Faction tag
1 Advanced Slot which can hold either a boon with the Advanced tag or any generic boon.
3 Generic slots which can hold any boon that does not have the Advanced or Faction tag.

but it takes a lot of text to say that. Please streamline the text to make it more understandable. How about:

Quote:

PCs gain boons either as rewards on a chronicle or by purchasing boons from Pathfinder Society factions (link). At the start of an adventure, each player can choose up to five of their character’s boons to use during that adventure - a process known as “slotting boons.” You may choose no more than one boon with the Faction tag, and may choose no more than one boon with the Advanced tag. Other tags are only restricted by the total number of slots available (five). Boons with the Slotless tag do not need to be chosen at the start of an adventure to be usable during that adventure.

I didn’t write that intending to imply it is definitive. There is definitely a lot of room for opinion and clarification here, some of which depends on exactly what the OrgPlay intends. Two things that immediately pop out: is slotting a Faction tagged boon required? (currently no, but you can’t use that slot for anything else) The issue is identified. Let’s discuss the particulars (what should and shouldn’t be required/allowed) in another thread.

Here's that thread ^_^

[Nefreet]

As I mentioned in that thread as well, many of us are used to the Boon *types* from Starfinder (Ally, Social, Slotless, etc). It seems like Pathfinder is trying to emulate that system, but it's not quite working. I believe the "fix" would be to go with just *tags* instead of types.

POSSIBLE LANGUAGE:

PCs may select and use (a process called "slotting") up to 5 Boons at the beginning of an adventure, including:

No more than 1 Boon with the "Faction" tag
No more than 1 Boon with the "Advanced" tag
No more than 1 Boon with the "Promotional" tag

[Nefreet]

I haven't played every scenario yet, but none of the Boons I've seen yet on Chronicle Sheets have types or tags, so I think it would be easy at this point to just get rid of the types in the Guide and call it a day.

[Nefreet]

Also, one problem I often have in Starfinder is the ability of players to select their Boons after the mission briefing. In my experience, this can take up a LOT of time.

Recent egregious example:

I ran the 9-10 Tier of the Season 2 Special recently, and three of the players were using AP credit babies. They had never used Boons before. Cue roughly 15 minutes of me explaining how Boons worked, how they were slotted, and them reading what they had.

That's the worst I've experienced, but this is a common thing for new players to take up game time after a mission briefing, when they could have had everything ready beforehand.

I believe the Guide should state either "at the beginning of the adventure" or "before the adventure begins". This allows everyone to have a base set of Boons slotted by the time the GM reads off the intro. THEN, after the briefing, give the players the opportunity to change out any Boons that they feel would be more suited to the mission.

Thematically, this means your characters shows up to the mission doing their usual schtick, but still has the ability to adapt for the trial at hand.

[Online Guide Team Lead - JTT]

Correction.

Only faction boons can be slotted in the faction slot. You *cannot* slot a generic boon in it.

The simplest statement would be:

1 Faction boon slot, that can *only* hold a boon with the faction trait.
4 additional boon slots.

No more than 1 Boon with the "Advanced" trait
No more than 1 Boon with the "Promotional" trait

[Online Guide Team Lead - JTT]

Note that PF2 boons have neither types, nor tags. Like all PF2 game options, they have traits.

(Yes, I am aware the guide table said "Type." That appears to have been a copy paste error. It should say Trait, and now does.)

[Nefreet]

Sweet. As long as it's different from Starfinder I'm fine with it ^_^

[Ferious Thune]

Online Guide Team Lead - JTT wrote:

Correction.

Only faction boons can be slotted in the faction slot. You *cannot* slot a generic boon in it.

The simplest statement would be:

1 Faction boon slot, that can *only* hold a boon with the faction trait.
4 additional boon slots.

No more than 1 Boon with the "Advanced" trait
No more than 1 Boon with the "Promotional" trait

Just a small note on this phrasing. It appears to leave open the possibility of placing a faction boon into one of the additional slots, since nothing in this says you can only have 1 faction boon (just that that slot can only hold a faction boon).

[Kromkore]

and of course no limit on the slotless boon

[FLite]

Ferious Thune wrote:

Online Guide Team Lead - JTT wrote:

Correction.

Only faction boons can be slotted in the faction slot. You *cannot* slot a generic boon in it.

The simplest statement would be:

1 Faction boon slot, that can *only* hold a boon with the faction trait.
4 additional boon slots.

No more than 1 Boon with the "Advanced" trait
No more than 1 Boon with the "Promotional" trait

Just a small note on this phrasing. It appears to leave open the possibility of placing a faction boon into one of the additional slots, since nothing in this says you can only have 1 faction boon (just that that slot can only hold a faction boon).

Player Basics:

- Player Rewards
-- Boons
--- Boon Slots
Boon Traits:
A faction boon indicates which faction you are representing during an adventure. You can slot a faction boon only in the faction slot (not in the generic or advanced slots).

[Nefreet]

Kromkore wrote:

and of course no limit on the slotless boon

That's Starfinder.

There is no "slotless" boon in Pathfinder.

You have a cap of 5 total.

[AgentIndigo]

Nefreet wrote:

Kromkore wrote:

and of course no limit on the slotless boon

That's Starfinder.

There is no "slotless" boon in Pathfinder.

You have a cap of 5 total.

There are slotless boons. The Player Basics page defines them (http://www.organizedplayfoundation.org/encyclopedia/pfs2edplayer-basics/):

"A slotless boon does not need to be slotted to grant its effect. Some slotless boons modify existing boons you already have."

There are many examples of slotless boons on the Faction Boons page.

[FLite]

Though unlike starfinder, there are *very few* slotless boons that will have an effect *during* an adventure. Aside from ones that "attach" to slotted boons, that is. (So far)

[Nefreet]

*facepalm*

I was liking the direction this was going.

Is that really needed? Just get rid of the types, leave the three tags, and limit boons to 5 per adventure.

Keep it simple.

[FLite]

There are no types or tags.

A lot of them are things like

Hireling
Professional Hireling (Slotless)
Expert Hireling (Slotless)
Master Hireling. (Slotless)

Each of the latter 3 augments Hireling. If they were not slotless, then you could not have a professional master Hireling, because it would eat all four of your slots.

Or

Home Region (Free, Slotless)

If it were not slotless then taking *any* regional option would *permanently* lock one of your slots.

[Nefreet]

That is extremely redundant.

In Starfinder, you just need one Hireling. Each time you upgrade, you replace the previous one.

And if you don't want the Regional Boon to take up a slot, make it 6 slots instead of 5, and one of them is for your region.

Keep it simple.

[Nefreet]

It's the "very few" that end up complicating things, adding word count, adding questions, and requiring clarifications.

[FLite]

In this case, adding additional slots for region, external membership, etc. would actually be more complicated.

Word count, is really a non issue. And I have not seen anything so far in the boons that *actually* needed claricfication, if people actually read the player rewards boon section.

[Nefreet]

Word count is absolutely an issue if you want people to actually read the stuff.

[FLite]

Concision and clarity matter. Word count is a publication requirement. And in an electronic document is largely irrelevant.

[Nefreet]

I understand the publication requirement. That is not my concern. My concern is, as you yourself stated, "people actually read".

Right now, the Guide is not readable. If you want more people to read it, and less people to question it, cut down on word count and, "keep it simple".

[Wei Ji the Learner]

The more words one adds to a given literary construction, the greater a chance that someone sees an 'extra' word and uses that as a lever to completely misconstrue the meaning of a given written document.

Particularly when it comes to rules. I blame society.

[FLite]

True, but the solution is to remove unneccessary Verbiage, not remove options.