I always played melee strong champions in PF1: Monk, Warrior, Battle Cleric, Warrior, etc.
In PF2 we already have the party (4): Giant Barbarian, Necromancy Sorurcerer, Paladin and bard (me).
I will play a Bard and I already have the concept of my character and I am in love with it.
It's a Umbral Gnome (for dark vision) that have a rave familiar. My stats are
Str 8 // Dex 16 // Con 12 // Int 14 // Wis 10 // Cha 18
My background is about politics, he is a guy that get everything he wants using his speech, deception, diplomacy or even using intimidation. He is also good on thievery and stealth actions, however he is not a great warrior. His little bird is always in his shoulder, and they are really good friends.
In combat:
He will try to avoid combat but in case somebody comes close he have a whip and he will try to trip (with dexterity, in my table we can do it).
He will support his team with spells or smart tactics.
I need advice on the Muse (Maestro or Polymath) and also on the feats and spells. I am really hype to be the face of the group but at the same time I want to be useful and not be just the guy that talks. I have no
experience with this kind of classes.
Some suggestions?
I think that Polymath would be better for you concept, they are all about versatility and changing yours spells and signature spells can help with stealthing and social aspects.
I think that the Melodious spell feat would be cool, it can make observers don't notice that you casted a spell.
I am a bit scared of being useles. Do you think bard is a champion that provides good things to the team?
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You won't be useless. Just spamming Inspire Courage to boost the others and casting a Telekinetic Projectile cantrip every round will be a good contribution, and you can bust out a spell or skill support when necessary.
I'd go Maestro, Inspire Courage (potentially extended by Lingering Composition) will be very useful for the barbarian and paladin, you can get Inspiring Defense at level 4 to protect everyone instead, and Dirge of Doom at 6 will help everyone, including the spellcaster, by reducing AC/saves/attacks for all enemies in the area of effect.
I like the versatility of Polymath and how it fits my character concept but at the same time maybe my teammates need a Maestro in combats.
BTW I don't one to use an instrument. Is it fine, in terms of rules, use the voice and body lenguage for performance checks?
I like the versatility of Polymath and how it fits my character concept but at the same time maybe my teammates need a Maestro in combats.
BTW I don't one to use an instrument. Is it fine, in terms of rules, use the voice and body lenguage for performance checks?
Yes, and in fact acting performance is the best one mechanically, because it works with both visual and audible performances for things like Counter Performance or performance checks to boost the full variety of composition cantrips, and there's a special use of Versatile Performance (Polymath initial feat) that depends on acting.
You should take the Virtuostic Peformer skill feat for a +1 (eventual +2) to a performance type you specialize in, and I generally recommend acting.
You don't need to be a Maestro, you still have Inspire Competence, the only benefit for Maestro at first is that you can spend focus to try to make it last longer so you don't have to spend an action every round of combat to maintain it. It's not a huge deal.
I like the versatility of Polymath and how it fits my character concept but at the same time maybe my teammates need a Maestro in combats.
BTW I don't one to use an instrument. Is it fine, in terms of rules, use the voice and body lenguage for performance checks?
Yes, and in fact acting performance is the best one mechanically, because it works with both visual and audible performances for things like Counter Performance or performance checks to boost the full variety of composition cantrips, and there's a special use of Versatile Performance (Polymath initial feat) that depends on acting.
You should take the Virtuostic Peformer skill feat for a +1 (eventual +2) to a performance type you specialize in, and I generally recommend acting.
You don't need to be a Maestro, you still have Inspire Competence, the only benefit for Maestro at first is that you can spend focus to try to make it last longer so you don't have to spend an action every round of combat to maintain it. It's not a huge deal.
Thanks a lot! I also apreciate this little tips. So do you think that Polymath is the optimal way to play my character?
In this case, best feats are?
F1: ESOTERIC POLYMATH
F2: MELODIOUS SPELL
I like the versatility of Polymath and how it fits my character concept but at the same time maybe my teammates need a Maestro in combats.
BTW I don't one to use an instrument. Is it fine, in terms of rules, use the voice and body lenguage for performance checks?
Yes, and in fact acting performance is the best one mechanically, because it works with both visual and audible performances for things like Counter Performance or performance checks to boost the full variety of composition cantrips, and there's a special use of Versatile Performance (Polymath initial feat) that depends on acting.
You should take the Virtuostic Peformer skill feat for a +1 (eventual +2) to a performance type you specialize in, and I generally recommend acting.
You don't need to be a Maestro, you still have Inspire Competence, the only benefit for Maestro at first is that you can spend focus to try to make it last longer so you don't have to spend an action every round of combat to maintain it. It's not a huge deal.
Thanks a lot! I also apreciate this little tips. So do you think that Polymath is the optimal way to play my character?
In this case, best feats are?
F1: ESOTERIC POLYMATH
F2: MELODIOUS SPELL
I definitely like Esoteric Polymath at 2nd, but Melodious Spell is great only if you expect to secretly cast in social situations. If not, I think Versatile Signature is ok if you expect to swap it a lot, otherwise Multifarious Muse for Maestro/Lingering Composition is a good pick, or a multiclass dedication for something cool elsewhere, like maybe a skill or two and a pair of cantrips in another spellcasting class.
Do you have some spells suggestion?
I was thinking on this ones:
cantrips:
Shield
Ghost Sound
Message
Telekinetic Projectile
Know Direction
1st Level
Disguise
Sleep
The cantrips are fine.
Are you sure you'll be able to use illusory disguise often enough to justify having it this early? I agree that it's eventually useful, but maybe wait until you get the Esoteric Polymath feat and have it as something in your spellbook for special occasions.
Sleep is good for trying to take down a guy or two alone, but if anyone stays awake it's really easy to wake up the others, they get a perception check just to hear the noise of combat and shake it off.
Color Spray (area debuff), Magic Weapon (buff an ally's weapon, train out of it later), Phantom Pain (single target damage/debuff), Soothe (in combat healing and buff mental defenses), and True Strike (single action cast to roll twice on your next attack, works with weapons and spell attack rolls like Telekinetic Projectile) are all good combat options.
I appreciate that you're putting your PC in context of the party and a background. It helps with specific advice.
That said, my advice is rather general. :)
1. I'm not sure your stats work out.
A: -2 Str, +2 Dex (choice), +2 Con, +2 Cha
B: +2 Dex, +2 Cha (needed to get them to 16 & 18)
C: +2 Cha
D: +2 Dex, +2 Cha (so those are fine), but +2 Int and +2 what? (not Int, already did that).
The only way to get to 14 Int is to lower Dex at steps A or B (which I don't recommend since you're the trap guy).
So maybe...
8 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Int, 10 Wis, 18 Cha
(with possible adjustments if there's a specific level for finale.)
2. Magic Missile
Against chewy & beefy monsters, the warriors can go to town with your buffs aiding (especially if the Paladin has a shield and can strike those attacking the Barb), but when it comes to the solo boss fight, those Magic Missiles (alongside the Necromancer's) will chew right through that high AC & high Saves foe by ignoring both. Your warriors have to hold the line or beat back the minions to protect you.
(Unless it's a low AC/high h.p. boss like an Ogre, then sing like normal.) Note that MM is a poor spell for casual use, but a game-changer against high defense enemies.
Note that Sleep doesn't work well in loud combat anymore. They wake up.
3. Medicine is a must for one of the other PCs. Your skills & skill feats will be taxed doing face & rogue stuff (meaning you might actually want Rogue Dedication!) and you have a low Wisdom. Somebody needs to Treat Wounds in all parties, especially ones with no Heal spell.
Soothe should only be for emergencies.
4. Speaking of skills, PF2 Bards have a lot fewer than before, even counting their class abilities that slip around that. Personally I'm not much of a fan of Bard Feats though as they tend to overlap, but that leaves room for Rogue Dedication & its 8th level ability to boost skills (still leaving you enough space to get your favorite Bard stuff).
5. Cantrip buff, Shield, Intimidate next target
That should work for most non-boss fights, and though it's routine, you'll have plenty of variety being the face & trap guy too.
Cantrip buff, attack Cantrip works well too.
Cheers
I appreciate that you're putting your PC in context of the party and a background. It helps with specific advice.
That said, my advice is rather general. :)
1. I'm not sure your stats work out.
A: -2 Str, +2 Dex (choice), +2 Con, +2 Cha
B: +2 Dex, +2 Cha (needed to get them to 16 & 18)
C: +2 Cha
D: +2 Dex, +2 Cha (so those are fine), but +2 Int and +2 what? (not Int, already did that).
The only way to get to 14 Int is to lower Dex at steps A or B (which I don't recommend since you're the trap guy).
So maybe...
8 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 12 Int, 10 Wis, 18 Cha
(with possible adjustments if there's a specific level for finale.)2. Magic Missile
Against chewy & beefy monsters, the warriors can go to town with your buffs aiding (especially if the Paladin has a shield and can strike those attacking the Barb), but when it comes to the solo boss fight, those Magic Missiles (alongside the Necromancer's) will chew right through that high AC & high Saves foe by ignoring both. Your warriors have to hold the line or beat back the minions to protect you.
(Unless it's a low AC/high h.p. boss like an Ogre, then sing like normal.) Note that MM is a poor spell for casual use, but a game-changer against high defense enemies.Note that Sleep doesn't work well in loud combat anymore. They wake up.
3. Medicine is a must for one of the other PCs. Your skills & skill feats will be taxed doing face & rogue stuff (meaning you might actually want Rogue Dedication!) and you have a low Wisdom. Somebody needs to Treat Wounds in all parties, especially ones with no Heal spell.
Soothe should only be for emergencies.4. Speaking of skills, PF2 Bards have a lot fewer than before, even counting their class abilities that slip around that. Personally I'm not much of a fan of Bard Feats though as they tend to overlap, but that leaves room for Rogue Dedication & its 8th level ability to boost skills (still leaving you enough space to get your favorite Bard stuff).
5. Cantrip buff, Shield, Intimidate next
...
WoW! Thanks for this answer. Is it better to put Str at 10 for being able to wear light armor maybe.
I like the rogue dedication, maybe it's a good idea. Do you think Polymath is better than Maestro for my build?PD: The paladin will play a wild druid and he will have heal spells and focus on medicine build.
You're welcome.
You can wear light armor, just aim low. :P
Con will likely make the bigger difference (unless you have a specific Bulk level you need). I think all my playtesters ended up taking Toughness too across several PCs each, since crits happen.
The better muse depends on how well it gels w/ other choices (& PCs).
Maestro is nice because it gives you Soothe (for emergencies) and Lingering Performance frees up actions to do some 3-action Magic Missiles on following rounds. But it's not helping your skills much, which I think is the only area you'll be strained.
So Polymath patches that skill-hole with Versatile Performance except it is a patch. With such a high Cha, it's a shame to not have all the social options (like Gather Info or Request!), but since you're also doing traps, you may need to.
If VP has all the social tricks you need, this is definitely the better option (and I suspect you'd have fun with Unseen Servant).
Of course, Maestro w/ MCD Rogue also patches the skill-hole, yet how about Polymath/Rogue for full coverage?
You do get plenty of skills, so maybe my love of skills causes me to overstate things. :)
Rethinking, you do need full Diplomacy, not VP's 1/3 version. VP can be good to have Intimidate's Demoralize share advancement w/ Perform, but that's not much of a bonus. And without a Champion any more, all the options of Deception will be useful for the party...depending.
Skills:
Two locked by class, four options from class, one background option + its Lore, one for Int 12. So nine total.
So Occult, Perform, Thievery, Stealth, Diplomacy, Lore (background), Acrobatics, Deception, Athletics
That's a solid start, but several of these you'll want at max, more than you can manage. So yep, MCD Rogue which will give you even more breadth to begin, but will give you access to that 8th level feat that gets you two skill bumps and a skill feat (up to 5x).
I wouldn't bother with the Rogue combat feats except maybe Mobility to escape corners though you may have a good spell for that.
And if there's a strong theme to the campaign, Gnome Obsession can be a good investment for Lore on that topic, i.e. sailing or Elder Gods.
Oh, and your bird's going to die, so don't get too attached.
The lack of Improved Evasion has killed many a critter in the PF2 playtest. :)
Cheers