| Ardon Daros |
(On mobile, hopefully I can edit and format this later, non-native English)
I'm looking for official clarification or ruling on hidden weapons and Sleight of Hand used in combat scenarios. All quotes are taken from d20pfsrd.
Sleight of Hand common uses:
Drawing a hidden weapon is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.
Another common use feature:
You can draw a light weapon without anyone noticing.
Check: A successful DC 20 Sleight of Hand check allows you to unobtrusively draw a weapon or other object no larger or longer than a light weapon (which includes potions, but not wands or alchemist bombs). Observers can notice you drawing the item as normal with opposed Perception checks. Creatures carefully observing you gain a +4 bonus on this Perception check.
First queation: what is the difference between drawing a weapon through "Draw Hidden Weapon" or "Palm Weapon"?
Is the weapon drawn using the "Draw Hidden Weapon" feature still considered concealed or hidden after it is drawn? (Same question for "Palm Weapon".)
If the answer to both questions is no, then when is a weapon considered hidden or concealed for the purposes of using a concealed weapon to perform an attack?
That is, how can one meet the presented requirement of the "Underhanded" rogue talent.
Benefit: A rogue with this talent gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a weapon.
Furthermore, if she makes a sneak attack during the surprise round using a concealed weapon that her opponent didn’t know about, she does not have to roll sneak attack damage, and the sneak attack deals maximum damage. A rogue can only use the underhanded talent a number of times per day equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 0).
Emphasis mine.
To me, it looks like if one is able to draw a hidden weapon (for example, through spring loaded wrist sheath as a swift action) they should be able to both keep the blade hidden and wield it until your target notices it or you use it to make an attack. Is this correct?
Unless one is able to keep a drawn weapon hidden, the wording of the talent makes no sense.
Second question: how does "Deft Palm" talent come into play in all this?
Benefit: A rogue with this talent can make a Sleight of Hand check to conceal a weapon while holding it in plain sight, even while she is being observed.
It allows one to make a Sleight of Hand check to conceal a weapon they are holding in plain sight, seemingly suggesting one cannot normally keep a weapon hidden if they are wielding it?.
If so, then what is the point of the feature of "Palm Weapon" if it doesn't keep your blade concealed aftee drawing it? Likewise, if this is the ruling, using a hidden blade would incur 2 separate checks: one for "Palm Weapon" weapon draw and one for "Deft Palm". Surely this is not the intended ruling?
An alternative ruling / question: instead of hiding one's weapon on their body "Deft Palm" allows one to consider a weapon to be concealed while still holding it and being observed. Does this remove the need to draw the weapon in order to use it to attack? (I assume: yes).
What exactly is the difference between "Deft Palm" talent and the "Palm Weapon" use of Sleight of Hand?
Is the only difference in considering where the weapon is hidden? (Somewhere on the body vs. in hand, wielding the weapon). How about action economy and surprise rounds?
Why are these rules so convulated? Any help in this regard is highly appreciated, thank you.
| Meirril |
Not an official ruling that I'm aware of but let me try to explain a few things.
Hidden Weapons are made to pass inspections without being found out. As such, the main objective is getting the weapon past a close inspection. The goal isn't to make it an easy to draw weapon. So the slight of hand rules on this reflect that there might be some sort of tricky locking mechanism that prevents the blade from being discovered by a close inspection.
Palming a weapon is drawing a light weapon from a normal sheath and readying it for use. This should be treated as the weapon being 'hidden' for this round. And just like the hiding rules in stealth, if it isn't behind some sort of concealment by the end of your turn everybody should see it. The same sort of concealment should apply to hidden weapons.
Concealment can come from all sorts of things. Tables, cloaks, long sleeves, fog, even shadows. Personally I'd require a skill contest between slight of hand and perception modified by circumstances.
Deft Palm: That would eliminate the need for concealment. You still need to draw the weapon.
And if the weapon is the size of a coin or smaller you can use slight of hand to hide it without deft palm.
As for hiding weapons on your body, that should be handled by other skills. Slight of Hand is for moving objects about. Disguise would be better for concealing weapons from sight.