| Revolving Door Alternate |
Friend is frustrated because his arcanist keeps getting massively pummeled. Long story, he's in a group with a bunch of players relatively new to the game. They have not really learned to, or at least how to, protect the squishies. In my opinion, at least half the problem is the GM insisted on starting at mid-levels with a bunch of noobies. Anyway, he apparently spends the first half of most fights casting defense and evasion spells just to stay alive. By the time he goes on the offense, things are mostly under control.
So he was thinking about taking the Staff-Like Wand discovery (he already has a bunch of looted wands in his bandoleers) wearing Folding Plate and carrying a tower shield. He doesn't really care much about a bunch penalties to hit or skill checks. He could memorize mostly spells without somatic components for combat or utility spells for out of combat.
Will this actually work out halfway decently? Have you seen it attempted?
| Melkiador |
Never seen it done because it’s not usually a problem. A lot of the caster’s defense is in standing at the back of the group and casting control spells to make it unlikely the enemies will ever make it through his teammates and to his squishy body. The standard backup plan is to prep some vanishes and just 5 foot back and use those if things get too close. And playing an arcanist means that he has a fast and easy way out of danger with dimension slide.
Drone
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Your friend may consider using Extend Spell on mage armor instead of folding plate. The armor bonus wouldn't be the same, of course, but he also wouldn't waste a standard action activating the folding plate (if he only uses it during combat). Quicken Spell is also handy for those defensive spells.
There's not that many combat spells without a somatic component so he can take Still Spell as well. He's sitting on an 85% spell failure chance if he wants to cast a spell with somatic components as you've described it and he's lowered his speed as well. If he wants to stay out of the fight, he needs some mobility. Multiple quickrunner's shirts that he changes out of between fights is good too.
I hope he has a lot of good (ie useful) wands if he wants to take Staff-Like Wand. When, not if, he runs into a creature that is either immune to or resistant to his wands, he's in for a would of hurt.
Of course, he could just talk it over with the other players and work out some better battle strategy. If they are playing as mid-level characters, the PCs themselves would know how to fight better as a unit. One couldn't get to that level if one was allowing his/her spellcasters to get squished on a regular basis. Perhaps the GM could give tactical advice during the fights.
| InvisiblePink |
Spellcasters don't usually rely on AC for defense because the less AC you currently have, the less valuable another point is. Think of it this way: if your enemy has +10 to hit, going from 11 AC to 12 AC only shifts your odds of being hit from 95% to 90%, but going from 29 AC to 30 AC shifts your odds from 10% to 5%, which effectively halves incoming damage with only a single point bonus.
Instead, consider defensive hours/level or minutes/level spells that can be cast before a fight, like Mirror Image.
| avr |
If staff-like wand is an option then quickened mirror image should be an option, and a simpler one to make work.
Before staff-like wand then the very low save DC of wands counts against them, and you can't live on CL 7+ wands of scorching ray alone - they're way too expensive. Trying to use stilled or V-only spells may be possible but it's a major step down in effectiveness.
There are some spells which protect the caster and do something useful, i.e. summoning and battlefield control. I'd try this before heavy armor.
| Gaming Ranger |
I think pre-buffing will help. Also, learning to position better with flight, spider climb, invisibility and stay out of reach BBEG and cast from relative safety can help.
Honestly, I usually enjoy playing frontline characters and ran into the same problems your friend is. The two suggestions above really helped me to be more tactical/strategic in how I played. I couldn’t just rush into a room and smash face without major consequences.
Example:
1. precast spider climb (10 minutes/level)
2. encounter bad guy, roll initiative
3a. Move action run up wall out of reach
3b. Cast offensive or buffing spell
You can do the same with fly (shorter duration). It also works for invisibility if you are just buffing your teammates.
Now there will be times when you can’t pre-buff this is where quicken (rod or feat) spells help, summoning for meat shields, or finding a use for your move action will make him feel like he is contributing to the team.
| Ventnor |
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An Arcanist, eh? Your friend might find this Arcane Exploit from the Disciple's Doctrine player companion useful.
By expending 1 point from her arcane reservoir as a standard action, the arcanist grants herself an effective illusion of armor. She gains the benefits of mage armor with a caster level that’s equal to her arcanist level and appears to be wearing light or medium armor of whatever design she chooses when activating this ability. At any time while this effect is active, she can expend 1 additional point from her arcane reservoir as an immediate action to also gain the benefits of shield of faith with a caster level equal to her arcanist level.
| Claxon |
I mean the tried and true method is "standing in the back and keeping your friends between you and the enemy". Is that not working for some reason?
If he's a mid level he should be able to cast fly, keeping most melee threats away. And he could also purchase a lesser cloak of displacement. A flat 20% miss chance on any attack can often be better than AC.
Or he could buy a salt spray ring and a goz mask or fog cutting lenses (or probably some other items). The salt spray ring makes it difficult for enemies to even target you.
| Revolving Door Alternate |
I don't have all the details, since I am not in that gaming group. He was just complaining about it to me.
Blur isn't even close to sufficient. Yes, 20% miss chance is nice. But a squishy caster can't handle 80% of the damage a melee opponent will dish out for any length of time at all. Even displacement isn't all that much better. And then he is still spending several rounds casting defensive and evasion buffs just to stay alive.
Slow speed doesn't bother him. His gnome (I think it was a gnome) normally rides perched on the back of some clockwork beetle thing.
Yes, all the defensive buffs are possibilities. And that is what he spends most of the fights doing. I gather that they rarely have much warning that a fight is going to happen or that the situation otherwise prevents him from pre-buffing. Most of it has been investigations of the nobles in their places.
Yes, a big investment for a +1 AC isn't much gain. He's not sure how big an investment this would be but it is for a +10 AC. That is getting significant. Still not sure it is enough to be worth the effort. That is what he is trying to figure out. At their level, I would think serious opponents and even a lot of the mooks will be hitting most of the time.
I mean the tried and true method is "standing in the back and keeping your friends between you and the enemy". Is that not working for some reason?
Everyone charges off for whatever target they want to engage, or flank, or whatever. After round one, there effectively is no front line to hide behind.
I don't remember what wands he said he has, but apparently it is a lot of them. Attack spell wands are something this GM likes hand out and no one else can or wants to use them. I must admit, I have rarely used them myself. Usually the DC and caster level are so low it is a waste of time. Utility and defensive wands I love. Attack spells, not so much.
| Mudfoot |
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Summon Meat Shield. It doesn't have to be very dangerous, so long as it gets in the way. And if the enemy is beating on a celestial badger, it's not hitting the arcanist. Plus flanking and so on.
Otherwise, Mage Armour is a no-brainer as it lasts so long. Any wizard type ought to have that up all the time.
Some magic scouting might give a bit of warning of when the fight's about to start, giving buffing time.
But really, it's a team game so they need to start working as one.
| OmniMage |
Wands don't suffer from arcane spell failure. Use them at your discretion.
Have you given the enemies any reason to go after you first? It sounds like you spend your time in combat buffing yourself instead of using your talents for offense. You aren't being much of threat. By that reasoning, your enemies should be going after the other characters then. Their efforts would be wasted on a foe that is doing nothing but being a hard target to hit.
| JiaYou |
Heh, that's a good point. Reminds me of the poster I saw with a hobgoblin pointing at the reader and it said:
"Only YOU can prevent dungeon fires...
Kill the wizard first."
It would be better for this to be relayed first-hand but it might just be that there are enough mooks that the party can't cover them all playing "man defense" so to speak, and even one baddie slipping through could spell disaster. But Flight, Mirror Image, and Vanish/Invisibility I'd say are absolutely necessary. And a Wand of each I think works out to the same price as that brooch.
| Chromantic Durgon <3 |
I don't have all the details, since I am not in that gaming group. He was just complaining about it to me.
Blur isn't even close to sufficient. Yes, 20% miss chance is nice. But a squishy caster can't handle 80% of the damage a melee opponent will dish out for any length of time at all. Even displacement isn't all that much better. And then he is still spending several rounds casting defensive and evasion buffs just to stay alive.
Slow speed doesn't bother him. His gnome (I think it was a gnome) normally rides perched on the back of some clockwork beetle thing.
Yes, all the defensive buffs are possibilities. And that is what he spends most of the fights doing. I gather that they rarely have much warning that a fight is going to happen or that the situation otherwise prevents him from pre-buffing. Most of it has been investigations of the nobles in their places.
Yes, a big investment for a +1 AC isn't much gain. He's not sure how big an investment this would be but it is for a +10 AC. That is getting significant. Still not sure it is enough to be worth the effort. That is what he is trying to figure out. At their level, I would think serious opponents and even a lot of the mooks will be hitting most of the time.
Quote:I mean the tried and true method is "standing in the back and keeping your friends between you and the enemy". Is that not working for some reason?Everyone charges off for whatever target they want to engage, or flank, or whatever. After round one, there effectively is no front line to hide behind.
I don't remember what wands he said he has, but apparently it is a lot of them. Attack spell wands are something this GM likes hand out and no one else can or wants to use them. I must admit, I have rarely used them myself. Usually the DC and caster level are so low it is a waste of time. Utility and defensive wands I love. Attack spells, not so much.
If he hasn’t got much time to buff then I feel like this combo is the best to try
Overland flight + Protection from arrows. Both would last 10 hours minimum so pre buffing isn’t an issue.
Then just stay out of range of melee with flight and if they get shot it should not matter too much.
| Scott Wilhelm |
Silken Ceremonial Armor has a 0% Arcane Spell Failure Chance, and you can enchant it like other Armor.
The Darkleaf Cloth Leather Lamellar and Mithril Chain Shirts have a very low Arcane Spell Failure chance, and if you then take the Arcane Armor Training Feat, you can knock it down to 0 as a Swift Action. This is problematic as sometimes you want that Swift Action for other things.
There's that force shield ring.
You might get a Shield with the Animated Enchantment.
Mirror Image can misdirect your opponent.
Blur gives you a Miss Chance.
Infernal Healing cures a lot of points.
| TheGreatWot |
Protection from arrows only functions if the weapon is nonmagical- which will be fairly likely at lower levels, but not so much once you get Overland Flight. Honestly, invisibility and nondetection is the best combo in the game. You can spam as many non-attack spells as you want and stay untouchable. Summoning, battlefield control, buffing...
| Mark Hoover 330 |
A level 10 Arcanist should not have to worry about getting hit in combat, even if being surprised. A 10th level Arcanist should have so many tricks to avoid combat at this point that it would be laughable to target them. A 10th level Arcanist could easily have Quicken Spell, either from their own feats or a rod; if your friend doesn't have this advise that they pick this up.
A 10th level Arcanist, armed with Quicken Spell, could be dropping either a Quickened Vanish (50% miss chance as well as other penalties) or a Quickened Mirror Image (multiple illusory dupes to soak up hits) right off the bat STILL allows said 10th level Arcanist to lob a fireball into the midst of combat with a Standard action that same round.
But moreso than counseling you or the player of the gnome on how improve the Arcanist's defenses, I think the best course of action is to help that whole group of gamers be more effective in combat.
Yes, new players will be eager to charge the front lines. However GMs should be applying a bit of logic to their combats too. Even in the middle of an open field, unless the PCs are outnumbered or at least even matched in quantity of foes, said enemies wouldn't be able to completely surround the party.
This means that, if the PCs aren't completely surrounded, the foes may be using this reasoning: say, there's a bunch of enemies before me and 3 of 4 are well-armed, slavering maniacs trying to hack us to pieces, but there's that ONE guy riding around back there on a mechanical bug. He looks like a soft target so I'll just avoid all these OTHER opponents and bee-line for THAT guy!
TL/DR: talk to your buddy, his fellow players, and even the GM. See if they can tighten up their tactics and the GM his combats.