Another situational one here, as Phantom Blade calls out two very distinct things:
1.) A Phantom Blade may not have a Phantom of any kind, even from another class/source.
>Cut dry and simple, no phantoms, no exceptions
2.) A phantom weapon functions similarly to a black blade, of the Bladebound Magus (which explicitly says no familiars of any kind, even from another source).
*>>This is what gets me; Is the Phantom Blade's wording saying you can have neither a Phantom nor a familiar, or that the 'descriptions below' say it makes just no phantoms available?
This replaces phantom, phantom recall, spiritual bond, and dual bond.
Just no phantoms. Pretty clear that familiar is to black blade as phantom is to phantom blade.
I'm not so sure, the text of the phantom blade class tells how a phantom blade is different than a blackblade and it never alters the text which prohibits Familiars. I think (and I'd be very happy to be proven wrong) that it is therefore as the OP concluded, a phantom blade can't have a phantom or familiar. You get a talking phantom blackblade instead.
Just no phantoms. Pretty clear that familiar is to black blade as phantom is to phantom blade.
Just wanted to clarify, as it can be taken the other way. (As with discussions on whether or not a Phantom Blade can actually use Spell Combat/ Spellstrike wo/Magus spells)
'it functions similarly to the black blade'
So it works like the rules for the blade, but that doesn't mean you get the black blade magus class feature.
Basically, the magus class feature has two parts, one the class feature itself that says, you get a black blade, you can't have a familiar and you get less arcane points. Then the second part explains what the blade is, what powers it has and how it functions.
It is the second part that the Phantom Weapon is referring to.
Hmmmm. I'll buy it mostly because I want to believe it. (VMC magus is GREAT for a phantom blade because you have the required features to use several different magus arcana a normal VMC character couldn't, and VMC sorcerer(arcane) is pretty sweet as well.)
The phantom blade archetype is so AWESOME, and yet because of how much is changed and the space the author tried to fit the changes into there's a LOT of ambiguity. I would say check with your DM. I'd expect table variance. Also expect to have to explain various aspects of the archetype frequently. It's messy....
There are a lot of threads discussing the archetype here on the forums though, some even include the writer's thoughts on how he intended it to work.
I would also like to point out the "...and in the descriptions below..." phrasing that comes directly before the 'can not have a phantom' wording, which is what is the primary factor of my concern. If this were an idea for society play, I wouldn't have brought it up, I would have assumed the worst possible outcome. This is for a homebrew though, but I would still like a more solid answer than 'defer to the DM', of which I will be told 'go ahead' most likely.
This is for a more pure understanding of the terminology used in either for RAW or RAI (both of which are becoming more and more unclear the more I look at the wordings on both abilities in correlation to each other).
... it never alters the text which prohibits Familiars...
Umm, they usually don't say "this alters" in text that refers to another class feature of another class; instead they write more in depth about where the similarities lie, and what the ability replaces (in the case of the phantom blade, the phantom class feature and the ability to take a phantom companion).
To be completely honest I just want this AT for the sole purpose of hitting an enemy with a club, then hitting an ally with a CLW with a nonlethal Club strike using Spellcombat and Spellstrike.
Um, phantom blade doesn't cast arcane spells, so I'm not sure it would be a good pick for an arcane trickster build... IF you want to do what you described check out the naturebonded magus archetype. You can pick up druid spells, so grab CLW, a merciful club, and go to town.
Um, phantom blade doesn't cast arcane spells, so I'm not sure it would be a good pick for an arcane trickster build... IF you want to do what you described check out the naturebonded magus archetype. You can pick up druid spells, so grab CLW, a merciful club, and go to town.
??? CLW is a spell on the Spiritualist list, and for the campaign I'm playing the RAI is Phantom Blade's Spell Combat/Spell Strike class features work with Spiritualist spells; meaning delivering a Cure Light Wounds with a melee attack.
OHH sorry.
For the way I use it:
AT = Archetype
Not arcane trickster.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant when you said "AT" I read that as arcane trickster. You can most definitely do the same trick with the club as a phantom blade. You wouldn't be advised however to try to combine the phantom blade with a build that goes into arcane trickster.
I'm sorry if I've been confused.
OHH sorry.
For the way I use it:AT = Archetype
Not arcane trickster.
Good to know, well if you want you can do the same trick with the magus archetype I mentioned, just another option.
and yet because of how much is changed and the space the author tried to fit the changes into there's a LOT of ambiguity.
One of my pet peeves about Pathfinder is how often they have functions like X but entirely differently, making it confusing to figure out how they want it to actually (and sometimes making it totally nonsensical).
Almost everything is changed from the black blade to the phantom blade, I expect a paragraph or two at most would have let it be completely stand alone, no need to refer to anything else.
Good to know, well if you want you can do the same trick with the magus archetype I mentioned, just another option.
But a scaling weapon that is fluid in form (already well aware Spell combat/spellstrike do not work with ranged weapons, or 2H weapons, as they still operate as the ability they come from) feels better for the build I'm trying for.
Plus free scaling Improved Unarmed Strike.
Ty for the suggestion though, I will definitely look more at it for another build.
Developer
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How I wish I had either more space or more thoroughly understood exactly how every moving piece of this archetype was going to affect everything else when I first wrote the archetype! Such is the curse of hindsight!
As for how the archetype is handling the receiving of a familiar, unless something is specifically specified in the archetype (such as the different progression for the weapon or the unique abilities), you refer to how the black blade worked for the bladeblound magus. As such, per RAW, a phantom blade spiritualist would also be forbidden from taking a familiar. However, my intent was only to keep a phantom blade from receiving a phantom through other means, so if it were up to me, I would be more than happy to allow a phantom blade to have a familiar as well.
In conclusion, RAW = no familiar, RAI = go ahead and take a familiar. :)
How I wish I had either more space or more thoroughly understood exactly how every moving piece of this archetype was going to affect everything else when I first wrote the archetype! Such is the curse of hindsight!
As for how the archetype is handling the receiving of a familiar, unless something is specifically specified in the archetype (such as the different progression for the weapon or the unique abilities), you refer to how the black blade worked for the bladeblound magus. As such, per RAW, a phantom blade spiritualist would also be forbidden from taking a familiar. However, my intent was only to keep a phantom blade from receiving a phantom through other means, so if it were up to me, I would be more than happy to allow a phantom blade to have a familiar as well.
In conclusion, RAW = no familiar, RAI = go ahead and take a familiar. :)
Thank you Luis for chiming in again, this kind of help is always wonderful to hear.
I'm happy to help! Phantom blade is probably my favorite archetype that I've written, so I'm always wanting to talk about it!
As I said, it is an AWESOME archetype, definitely one of my favorites for is general blend of so much goodness. It's not the best and anything but it is dang good at doing almost anything decently well.
Remember that as a psychic caster, any spells with Thought components have +10 to the concentration DC if a move action isn't used to focus. It isn't insurmountable but does make spell combat more difficult for the spiritualist.
Remember that as a psychic caster, any spells with Thought components have +10 to the concentration DC if a move action isn't used to focus. It isn't insurmountable but does make spell combat more difficult for the spiritualist.
There's a cheap magic item in the same book that published the Phantom Blade that makes centering a swift rather than move action.
Remember that as a psychic caster, any spells with Thought components have +10 to the concentration DC if a move action isn't used to focus. It isn't insurmountable but does make spell combat more difficult for the spiritualist.There's a cheap magic item in the same book that published the Phantom Blade that makes centering a swift rather than move action.
!!!
Ectoplasmatist w/ Magus VMC here I come!
Remember that as a psychic caster, any spells with Thought components have +10 to the concentration DC if a move action isn't used to focus. It isn't insurmountable but does make spell combat more difficult for the spiritualist.There's a cheap magic item in the same book that published the Phantom Blade that makes centering a swift rather than move action.
Almost irrelevant as the Phantom Blade has that ability built in @ level 4
This ability replaces spiritual interference and greater spiritual interference.
And the item you are referencing is the Centering Jewel for 1k
Source Psychic Anthology pg. 8
Aura faint transmutation; CL 1st
Slot headband; Price 1,000 gp; Weight —
Description
This simple teardrop jewel is worn on the center of the forehead and gives its wearer the ability to quickly focus her mind. The wearer can center herself (Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventures 144) as a swift action.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, burst of insightOA; Cost 500 gp
Ah, didn't see that, my bad.
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I'm not so sure, the text of the phantom blade class tells how a phantom blade is different than a blackblade and it never alters the text which prohibits Familiars. I think (and I'd be very happy to be proven wrong) that it is therefore as the OP concluded, a phantom blade can't have a phantom or familiar. You get a talking phantom blackblade instead.
A literal reading of the phantom blade rules results in the phantom blade only able to use magus spells for spell combat and spellstrike. The phantom blade does not alter the text of either ability to include spells from the phantom blade spell list.
Or, we can assume the writer was very sloppy in changing the necessary text to work with the phantom blade. If the writer was sloppy with spell combat and spellstrike, they were most likely sloppy with the phantom blade as well.