|
Monk is in bad shape with a capital BAD right now.
I'm hoping they LITERALLY TRY to make it Overpowered for the final printing of PF2 so that for once it may actually keep up with the power curve of the other Martial Classes that don't need to invest all their WBL in a ton of Rare and SUPER EXPENSIVE "Monk Mandatory Equipment" that literally all Monks need to stay competitive such as Handwraps, Elven Boots, Bracers of Armor, Monks Robe, and the Headband of Wisdom.
Even IF they decided to go totally overboard at the Golem HQ I still feel like they' would at BEST be on par with the other Classes... I think someone at Paizo got bullied by Monk Players at a table some decades ago because their bias against them shines through quite clearly.
|
|
I am being a bit over-dramatic but the basis of my opinion here lies in a few points.
Monks have EASILY the biggest "Mandatory" Magic Item list of any Classes, a problem this Edition explicitly is trying to get rid of.
Fighters are more highly trained with NO INVESTMENT AT ALL in Unarmed Attacks than a Monk.
Nerfed Saving Throw Bonuses
They can't use Trinkets, items created literally to give "low equipment use classes" a way to do interesting things with their WBL even though most Trinkets as printed so far are of middling use at BEST.
They're still the most MAD Class and even with the new ABC Stat generation they will still be either way behind on AC/Saves/Skills as well as Ki if they choose to focus on Strength, way behind on Damage and Ki points for cool tricks, and anyone who is foolish enough to invest heavily in Wis will find themselves nowhere near as rewarded as in PF1, no AC bonus it only applies to your special attacks and Ki points.
Most of their Class Feats focus on giving BACK things they just got by default previously such as the ability to use Monk Weapons, Stunning Fist, Wholeness of Body, & Evasion. They took away CORE Abilities away from the Class, stuffed them into Class Feats in order to let the buy them back, and while they were at it they nerfed the everloving crap out of them.
Unarmed Damage doesn't scale at ALL anymore which leads back to my first point, they rely 100% on a SINGLE ITEM to deal decent damage, namely Handwraps and if they EVER have them stolen, destroyed, or Dispelled the level 15 monk will go straight back to doing garbage 1d6-1d10 + Str Damage on a hit.
All that aside, I DO like some of the things they're doing with the class but I really feel like the Monk Class needs a number of "Paths" much like the Ranger/Rogue/Champion that will help sort them into the various types such as the Weapon Master Monk, Unarmed/Brawler, Meditative, and Tank types. Doing this IMO needs to be FREE FREE FREE on top of what they have and each path needs to add at LEAST 1 of those aforementioned Class Feats that were carved out of the existing abilities from the PF1 Monk every 4-5 levels. For example the Weapon Master starts with free Monastic Weapon Training and the Medatiative type would get Ki Strike & Ki Rush for free at 1.
Lastly, someone needs to go around and sharpie over all the internal copies of the PT Materials to get rid of Brawling Focus as a Class Feat and just GRANT IT to all Monks at level 4 instead.
As it stands most Rogues with the Monk Multiclass Archetype will be able to accomplish almost everything a "True" Monk can to a better and greater degree of survivabity and flexibility.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Monks feel quite strong to me. Their damage potential with fierce flurry can be disgusting, and their mobility makes them really, really good at using hit and run to avoid damage.
I am being a bit over-dramatic but the basis of my opinion here lies in a few points.
Monks have EASILY the biggest "Mandatory" Magic Item list of any Classes, a problem this Edition explicitly is trying to get rid of.
... What? No they don't. They have 2 mandatory items, 3 once potent kicks in. Same as every other class. They have some legit downsides to their items due to uneven levels and requiring a single more point of charisma, but they don't need any more items than anyone else.
Fighters are more highly trained with NO INVESTMENT AT ALL in Unarmed Attacks than a Monk.
And the fighter does a d4 nonlethal damage and lacks flurry, before you even introduce stances. Fighters are only comparable at punching if they multiclass into monk, at which point you are basically building the PF1 style brawler, trading monk mobility for raw martial potential.
Nerfed Saving Throw Bonuses
IMO, the only real problem here is that monks don't get their evasion mechanics at the same level as other classes.
They can't use Trinkets, items created literally to give "low equipment use classes" a way to do interesting things with their WBL even though most Trinkets as printed so far are of middling use at BEST.
This isn't really true either. The only ones they can't use are weapon trinkets. Well, that and feat specific stuff but that doesn't really count. And I hate to say this but unless trinkets get a huge boost they aren't missing much.
They're still the most MAD Class and even with the new ABC Stat generation they will still be either way behind on AC/Saves/Skills as well as Ki if they choose to focus on Strength, way behind on Damage and Ki points for cool tricks, and anyone who is foolish enough to invest heavily in Wis will find themselves nowhere near as rewarded as in PF1, no AC bonus it only applies to your special attacks and Ki points.
Eh. Non-sensei PF1 monks weren't especially rewarded by making WIS their primary stat. Getting good AC didn't tend to matter much if you couldn't hurt things. I also don't the monk's MAD issues particularly worse than Barbarians or anyone who wants to gish,
Most of their Class Feats focus on giving BACK things they just got by default previously such as the ability to use Monk Weapons, Stunning Fist, Wholeness of Body, & Evasion. They took away CORE Abilities away from the Class, stuffed them into Class Feats in order to let the buy them back, and while they were at it they nerfed the everloving crap out of them.
There's definitely some truth to this. The monk is in the top two classes for feeling stretched too thin for class feats, IMO. I think their modular nature feels good compared to the core PF1 monk, but the Unchained Monk felt pretty dang modular while still really laying on tons of things for you to get.
Unarmed Damage doesn't scale at ALL anymore which leads back to my first point, they rely 100% on a SINGLE ITEM to deal decent damage, namely Handwraps and if they EVER have them stolen, destroyed, or Dispelled the level 15 monk will go straight back to doing garbage 1d6-1d10 + Str Damage on a hit.
Again, this is literally every martial right now. It is also something that will be changing for every martial, so it seems rather absurd to complain about it now.
All that aside, I DO like some of the things they're doing with the class but I really feel like the Monk Class needs a number of "Paths" much like the Ranger/Rogue/Champion that will help sort them into the various types such as the Weapon Master Monk, Unarmed/Brawler, Meditative, and Tank types. Doing this IMO needs to be FREE FREE FREE on top of what they have and each path needs to add at LEAST 1 of those aforementioned Class Feats that were carved out of the existing abilities from the PF1 Monk every 4-5 levels. For example the Weapon Master starts with free Monastic Weapon Training and the Medatiative type would get Ki Strike & Ki Rush for free at 1.
Yeah, I've been advocating class paths for a long time, and the monk is near the top of my list for classes that could use them.
Lastly, someone needs to go around and sharpie over all the internal copies of the PT Materials to get rid of Brawling Focus as a Class Feat and just GRANT IT to all Monks at level 4 instead.
Yeah, it is a little weird they have to buy this, though I'll note that Brawling might have the strongest critical specialization in the game.
As it stands most Rogues with the Monk Multiclass Archetype will be able to accomplish almost everything a "True" Monk can to a better and greater degree of survivabity and flexibility.
That doesn't really feel true. A rogue multiclassing into monk could make a good ninja, but even just the delayed feat progression means they will always be playing catch up with an actual monk for flurry, damage, HP, and mobility. They will be plenty good but they aren't gonna out-monk the monk.