I looked at a number of threads, but I couldn't find a consensus. I have a Monk (Maneuver Master) 1/Fighter (Gloomblade) 6 that I was thinking about taking two levels in Brawler (Hinyasi) for the next two levels, and picking up a Monk's Robe at some point.
My initial thought was that the levels of monk and brawler would stack when wearing a monk's robe, but now I'm not so sure.
Martial Training (Ex)
At 1st level, a brawler counts her total brawler levels as both fighter levels and monk levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats. She also counts as both a fighter and a monk for feats and magic items that have different effects based on whether the character has levels in those classes (such as Stunning Fist and a monk’s robe). This ability does not automatically grant feats normally granted to fighters and monks based on class level, namely Stunning Fist.
From reading the threads on this forum, I've found three interpretations for calculating Unarmed & AC bonus:
1) Monk + Brawler. For this example character (Monk 1/Brawler 2) they would count as a Monk 8 when wearing the robes. (1d10 unarmed, AC bonus +2). Since you get the wisdom bonus at 1st level, you'd get that either way.2) Monk v. Brawler. For this example, you compare Monk 6 and Brawler 7 and take the highest (1d8 unarmed, AC bonus +1). Since you get the wisdom bonus at 1st level, you'd get that either way.
3) Monk & Brawler. For this example, you'd get the benefits of BOTH Monk 6/Brawler 7 (1d8 unarmed, AC bonus +2). Since you get the wisdom bonus at 1st level, you'd get that either way.
This character doesn't wear armor, so that aspect of it doesn't factor in.
Has there been a consensus? For the record, this isn't for PFS, so I can bring it to my GM, but I'm just curious what others have done.
Thanks!
I don't see anything that says that Brawler and either Monk stack levels to determine unarmed strike damage. Without a rule or FAQ that says it explicitly the abilities from 2 different classes do not stack. The abilities share similar tables, but they are named after the respective class. i.e. they don't share a name, and they aren't the same.
I'm sorry if this wasn't clear, but I was referring to ONLY when they are using magic items (or feats, for that matter). The section ONLY MENTIONS those situations, not any other time.
I know full well that they don't stack in any other situation. Granted, that is weird that they would somehow stack when you put on the robe, but be completely different when not. You could then do a monk 10/brawler 10 and be considered a monk 25 when you put on the robe, but not otherwise...
There is no reason to believe an item that adds to either monk or brawler levels would somehow allow them to stack together along with the item. You can add 4 to your monk levels, you can add 4 to your brawler levels, or you could just be considered a level 5 monk. It says nothing about adding all of your brawler and monk levels together and I don't see any reason an either/or item would allow stacking classes without actually saying it allows stacking classes.If you are still inclined to believe otherwise, could you quote which parts lead you to believe otherwise? This would be much easier to discuss if we can be perfectly clear what the point of contention is.
Honestly, it's only because it says that it counts as monk levels, which I assumed meant that if you also had monk levels, they would add together. When I looked for a ruling, I found multiple interpretations, including mine, with each person seemingly believing that was just how it worked without realizing that it could be read another way. Even when I initially questioned my assumption (I was making fun of how they don't stack unless I wear a robe) the idea that both classes would be increased by 5 and the benefits would stack was a surprise to me.
In fact, since it doesn't say to pick a class, the RAWiest interpretation is probably that. It increases your monk level by 5. Is the monk class a monk? Then it's increased. Is the brawler class treated as a monk? Then it's increased. Do the AC bonuses stack? One is untyped, one is dodge, so yes.
The easiest is to add the levels together, then increase, imo, but honestly i'm fine with any of the three (or even maybe one I haven't heard yet). It's honestly the least messed up thing i'm doing with this character :D
Edit: side question. Say I took stunning fist (1 use per day per monk level). Would you say that the monk 1/brawler 2 gets 2 or 3 daily uses? It's the same clause in the ability, but it feels different, for some reason.
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At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.
Usually a monk’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.
A monk’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
A monk also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown above on Table: Monk. The unarmed damage values listed on Table: Monk are for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with his unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Table: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage.
At 1st level, a brawler gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A brawler may attack with fists, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a brawler may make unarmed strikes with her hands full. A brawler applies her full Strength modifier (not half ) on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.
Usually, a brawler’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.
A brawler’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that modify either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
A brawler also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than others, as shown on Table: Brawler. The unarmed damage values listed on that table are for Medium brawlers. A Small brawler deals less damage than the amount given there with her unarmed attacks, while a Large brawler deals more damage; see the following table.
Results:
So, unfortunately due to the Hybrid class rules, and that neither class ability says that it works with the other, the two would not stack. Therefore as a lvl 1monk/2brawler, your unarmed damage with the robe would be either 6 monk, or 7 brawler.
The same logic applies for the AC bonus, you get the AC Bonus of either a lvl 6 monk, OR a lvl 7 brawler.
Edit: All this said, you have a home game, you may be able to present this information to your GM, and see if he is willing to waive that rule in this case. Since this is not really a case of what you're trying to do causing game breaking mechanics.
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Edit: side question. Say I took stunning fist (1 use per day per monk level). Would you say that the monk 1/brawler 2 gets 2 or 3 daily uses? It's the same clause in the ability, but it feels different, for some reason.
This probably feels different because it is. (At list different than from my post above) Stunning fist is NOT a Class ability, rather it is a feat that acts differently based on your levels of a specific class. Since Brawler Acts as monk for the purpose of Feats then in this case you do add the levels together. So for the purpose of stunning fist, a 1monk/2brawler qualifies as a lvl3 monk.
You know just where to strike to temporarily stun a foe.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit: You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll (thus, a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). Stunning Fist forces a foe damaged by your unarmed attack to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 your character level + your Wis modifier), in addition to dealing damage normally. A defender who fails this saving throw is stunned for 1 round (until just before your next turn). A stunned character drops everything held, can’t take actions, loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, and takes a –2 penalty to AC. You may attempt a stunning attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be stunned.
Special: A monk receives Stunning Fist as a bonus feat at 1st level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. A monk may attempt a stunning attack a number of times per day equal to his monk level, plus one more time per day for every four levels he has in classes other than monk.
The distinction is in how the two work. Monks Robes, add +5 to the monk level for the purpose of determining AC bonus and unarmed attack damage, but those two class abilities still don't stack with each other, so you have Monk lvl+5 OR Brawler level+5.
Stunning Fist on the other hand is 1/day for monk levels, and 1/4/day for non monk levels. Since Brawler levels count as monk levels for this, the Stunning fist feat itself is how they stack. Because the rules for Class abilities not stacking unless otherwise specified does not apply to Feats (Feats are not class abilities), the result is you add both monk and brawler levels as 1/day.