Just reposting content as requested.
@nightflier, I see where some of the confusion is coming with the bite ability mentioned in Blood Drinker feat, with prerequisite of Morgral. You have based the Morgral on Dhampir, which has an alternative racial trait Fangs that gives the bite attack. For Blood Surge of Morgral, some clarity is needed, on how the blood is taken from the target. Also one needs to be grappling, no mention of helpless target as done for Blood Drinker. Too me both Blood Drinker and Blood Surge forms the bases (prerequisite) for other feats, and do the same thing that is to take blood from targets, though seem to have different types of damage and benefits. Blood Drinker only requires min of 1 HP of damage to target, or bite for 1d3 (according to Fangs racial trait of Dhampirs) and deals 2 points Con damage, while Blood Surge does a varying amount of damage for normal HP.
I believe both abilities should have the same method of gaining the blood, with same initial damage done to gain the blood, or one ability forms the basis for all the other feats, and this ability only handles how the blood is taken. Seeing Dhampirs did not have a racial ability to gain blood, yet Morgral has the racial ability using blood, I think the Blood Surge should handle all the blood retrieving aspects, remove this from Blood Drinker, seeing prerequisite for Blood Drinker is Morgral which already has racial ability Blood Surge, and make Blood Drinker as additional effects to using Blood Surge ability.
I spotted this on the Dhampir entry under Physical Appearance section:
Dhampir wrote:
All dhampirs have elongated incisors. While not true fangs, these teeth are sharp enough to draw blood, and many suffer a reprehensible desire to indulge in sanguinary delights, despite the fact that the act provides most no physical benefit.
thus allowing them to draw blood without having the need for cutting or having tearing/ripping damaging fangs. Just four tiny holes.
Under Morgral description we have:
Morgral wrote:
When they get excited, by either positive or negative input, their necromantic traits become more exposed. Their eyes change to bright red or yellow, their canine teeth sharpen and extend, and their nails grow long. Good-aligned Morgral despise showing this side of themselves, especially to those they care about.
Perhaps the Blood Surge detail should include information of the teeth from Dhampir description above, also include information of alternatives to the non-fang bite: a severe or bleeding wound, or a cutting. If Morgral don't have a [alternative] racial trait option of Fangs, then the bite information should be removed from the Blood Drinker option to prevent confusion.
Just including the Fang information for your deliberation.
Fangs wrote:
On occasion, a dhampir may inherit his father's lengthy canines. Whenever the dhampir makes a grapple combat maneuver check to damage an opponent, he can choose to bite his opponent, dealing 1d3 points of damage as if using a natural bite attack. As a standard action, the dhampir can bite a creature that is bound, helpless, paralyzed, or similarly unable to defend itself. This racial trait replaces the spell-like ability racial trait.
Thanx, for looking into this. I like how you adapting various races in Pathfinder to your setting. Though some times copying and pasting abilities (feats, talents, gifts, traits, etc), with slight race name changes, does not always work when combining abilities in a race or feat trees for the race. Some abilities may need to be adjusted to make sense in the build. If you need me to help alter abilities, and the like for your setting, just drop me an email.
I still juggling with flaw: Healing Resistance, Morgral trait: Regression (for possible feats based on this feat for strength based attacks), Precise Shot feat and Gral Traits (2 to be taken by level 4), for the start of the adventure. Definitely going to take Point-Blank Shot at 1st level, basis for Precise Strike and other feats.
I planning to take a few daggers for throwing, and to be used in emergency melee. Think a rapier again for emergency melee considering Strength is 13, and maybe hand crossbow or short bow, to complement the daggers. Though regression abilities may boost melee attacks, but still at risk of low armour protection.
On the background part, she would be sent on a Solitude mission to Varingia, perhaps to assassinate or gather information.
This brings up another question, how did the party come together?
For Morgrals, do we take the number of base languages from the parents race?
Morgral section.
Favoured Class Options is incomplete, only mentions the classes, but not the options. Also what is the Noble Dead class?
I not sure whether it is wise to do this or not:
Take flaw: Resistant Healing (for immunity against arcane powers, half 1/2 natural healing, blood surge for healing) for gifted (to take feat Point-Blank Shot), and gain Gral Trait: Uncanny Agility or Supernatural Speed.
Please advice.
Thanks for the answers NF. I have taken "Arcane Bond" with my ancient Warhammer. The only reason I asked about a "Spellcasting" skill is it's listed as a class skill under the Channeler.
I plan on Ergo taking two or three schools for spellcasting, then some hexes, and combat skills. Kind of a Jack-of-all-trades, but following a common theme. (Communicating with spirits, and fascination/fear of lightning.) We'll see how he develops, but it can't hurt to have an ancient Librarian's ghost living in your warhammer. (Wow! I need a T-shirt that says that).
Just reposting content as requested.
@nightflier, I see where some of the confusion is coming with the bite ability mentioned in Blood Drinker feat, with prerequisite of Morgral. You have based the Morgral on Dhampir, which has an alternative racial trait Fangs that gives the bite attack. For Blood Surge of Morgral, some clarity is needed, on how the blood is taken from the target. Also one needs to be grappling, no mention of helpless target as done for Blood Drinker. Too me both Blood Drinker and Blood Surge forms the bases (prerequisite) for other feats, and do the same thing that is to take blood from targets, though seem to have different types of damage and benefits. Blood Drinker only requires min of 1 HP of damage to target, or bite for 1d3 (according to Fangs racial trait of Dhampirs) and deals 2 points Con damage, while Blood Surge does a varying amount of damage for normal HP.
I believe both abilities should have the same method of gaining the blood, with same initial damage done to gain the blood, or one ability forms the basis for all the other feats, and this ability only handles how the blood is taken. Seeing Dhampirs did not have a racial ability to gain blood, yet Morgral has the racial ability using blood, I think the Blood Surge should handle all the blood retrieving aspects, remove this from Blood Drinker, seeing prerequisite for Blood Drinker is Morgral which already has racial ability Blood Surge, and make Blood Drinker as additional effects to using Blood Surge ability.
I spotted this on the Dhampir entry under Physical Appearance section:
Dhampir wrote:All dhampirs have elongated incisors. While not true fangs, these teeth are sharp enough to draw blood, and many suffer a reprehensible desire to indulge in sanguinary delights, despite the fact that the act provides most no physical benefit.
thus allowing them to draw blood without having the need for cutting or having tearing/ripping damaging fangs. Just four tiny holes.
Under Morgral description we have:...
Ergo's fascination for communicating with undead could give some reason for these two characters to come together...though I know you're not completely undead :-)
Hello. Does this look good?
I believe there is a nice Ghogral to get acquainted with, much more dead than I.
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@Haria
Blood Drinker has this line:
"If you have a bite attack, you can drink blood automatically as part of your bite attack; otherwise, you must first cut your target by dealing 1 hit point of damage with a slashing or piercing weapon (though you may feed upon a creature with severe wounds or a bleed effect without cutting it first)."
That means that the method of ingesting blood is already covered.
As you've said, racial description of Morgral pertaining to Blood Surge ability states that their incisors lengthen, which allows them to take blood without dealing other kind of damage, as in via bite attack.
Right now I am not inclined to re-visit Morgral design, since I have more work to do on other stuff. I'll probably make some correction when I fully design Noble Dead class. That is, or will be, five-level class for Gral races, similar to Lycan class.
Your base languages should come from the society you grew up in.
I will add Fav. Classes options later today.
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@all
I will be creating a NPC that will compliment your party and bring it up to 6 members, but that means that I'll need 5 players at least. I'm gonna give you until the end of the next week to finish your characters, but if we do not have a requisite number of players, I'm afraid I'll not start the game. :(
If you have any friends you'd like to invite to this game so that we can have a full roster, please do so.
@nightflier. No train smash, can always amend character later on with updates to Morgral race.
For now I will take Blood Surge as the basis for all blood drinking based feats. All feats are just addon features to the racial Blood Surge ability. When taking blood, she would either use her teeth to punch holes into neck, wrists, etc where blood arteries are easily accessible, or making small cuts, though little bite is probably cleaner and without need of 1 point of damage. Seeing no mention of bleeding damage takes place after initial blood drain, I assuming that her saliva has some clogging healing agent to stop the bleeding once done draining.
Going to skip taking Blood Drinker at 1st level, so this will give you some time to have the opportunity to look at the blood drinker feats.
Considering the blood surge ability for healing (drinking the blood of foes), half natural healing. Would it be a good idea to take Resistant Healing trait to have full immunity to magical healing and gain Regression trait?
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Well, I don't know. That depends on what you plan to do with your character. As a general rule, I avoid telling players how to build their characters, unless it's something that I feel it can be disruptive to the game.
My advice is that you try what you like and you can always rebuild your character.
Thanx for allowing a rebuild later. First time I experiencing a whole new alternative means of healing to what I used to being used in games.
I will go with taking the flaw and regression trait, see how the new healing works.
Thanx for the languages, I take Solitude language and her elven parents language. I swapped the score given to Str and Wis, to improve melee combat a little more.
Trait choices: is this selection valid?
Sunlight Veteran: race
Regression: race
Healing Resistant: flaw
Gifted: background
While reviewing Deep Magic...and I'm still digesting this mammoth tome, I was drawn to the "Rune Magic" section, and can see how this would fit the theme of Ergo, maybe even more than the Hex's, and Patron. Perhaps the library he found had a special section with each of the 24 runes on a bookshelf, and the books beneath it supporting the function of the rune. Once Ergo finds his way back here, this could be how he achieves mastery of the new runes. I still like Aracane bond with his ancient Warhammer, but maybe if we can work something else he'll go with Runes, instead of Patron and Hex's for that part of the character. I'll post up what I've got of Ergo tonight, but an going to skip putting a lot more time into him until it is determined if we have a game or not. All that's left are...
Equipment
Skills
Background details
Choosing spells.
So we 3 so far.... :(
And me makes 4 :)
His profile is empty atm as I got it all on another program and will port it over soon.
Just curious but would skill focus: Persuasion work? I got 5 feats total by being an imperial fighter and so I didnt want to put them all as combat orentated but skill focus persuasion seems to be pulling double weight and therefore a no-brainer.
Also, here is a great pic of Armstrong!
I'll check the runes section of Deep Magic right away.
Edit: You can take runes as Channeler talents. No prerequisites, unless they are mentioned in Deep Magic.
So if I take a Rune power, instead of a spell school, does that mean the associated spells for the Rune serve as spells available to learn?
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And me makes 4 :)
His profile is empty atm as I got it all on another program and will port it over soon.
Just curious but would skill focus: Persuasion work? I got 5 feats total by being an imperial fighter and so I didnt want to put them all as combat orentated but skill focus persuasion seems to be pulling double weight and therefore a no-brainer.
Also, here is a great pic of Armstrong!
Skill Focus (Persuasion) works just like any other Skill Focus.
Also, you can take this feat:
Slow Learner [Imperial]
Prerequisites: Imperial, must be taken at character creation.
Benefit: This feat takes the place of one of the bonus feats you would otherwise take at character creation, and is effectively an "empty feat slot" that you may fill at any time you wish. For instance, a character may start out with a Dexterity of 12 but eventually wish to learn the Dodge feat; by taking this feat, the character may hold off on using one of his bonus feat slots until 4th level, when his ability score increase fives him a Dexterity of 13, allowing him to take the Dodge feat.
This feat may only be taken once.
Normal: You must use bonus feats as soon as they become available.
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So if I take a Rune power, instead of a spell school, does that mean the associated spells for the Rune serve as spells available to learn?I'll check the runes section of Deep Magic right away.
Edit: You can take runes as Channeler talents. No prerequisites, unless they are mentioned in Deep Magic.
You can still learn spellcasting schools, since you get them as bonus feats as you progress in levels. You can use talents to learn runes, which allows you to inscribe a rune and use one of its powers, but not cast spells in association with that rune unless you have appropriate Spellcasting feat.
Trait choices: is this selection valid?
Sunlight Veteran: race
Regression: race
Healing Resistant: flaw
Gifted: background
Waiting for answer before continuing to build character.
Checking in, still interested in playing Raynar. WHen do we start? And who is in the party?
Got these still to do:
Favoured class option
Equipment (weapons and armour)
Description stats
Appearance
Background
Otherwise mechanics are basically done, for checking
Here are the basics of Ergo. Still need languages, spells, and equipment, and his story will be in his profile as well, but this should be enough to go on for checking mechanics.
Any chance for game thread this weekend. Got skeleton background done.
Well the minimum needed to do this campaign is 5 people so who do we got...
Alex Armstrong. Imperial human fighter. Solid tank and frontliner, devilishly charming
Ergo Blackroot. Mahsiat Dwarf Channeler. Hexer and bloodline magic. Alone and confused.
Yarovuk Greypelt. Boarderlander Human Lycan. Martial frontliner and wolfy.
Raynar. Gholgral Imperial Fighter. Martial frontliner undead corpse eater.
Haria. Morgral something or other (sorry, I don't know much about this one)
That's 5! Sweet! Time to officially designate the time needed for this and get my character done!
Question on background. Armstrong is an imperial in the military caste. Can you give me some more background on the imperials as well as what would be an appropreate rank? In my mind he was sent on a "special mission" and that's why he is with everyone :)
2 more questions :)
I took the ancesteral legacy trait and I am applying it to my tower shield. How do you want to rule the +1 enhancement bonuses? I have to chose either to enhance it as a weapon or as a shield each time is my assumed approach.
Can I take improved ancesteral weapon at lvl 1 and start out as a magic shield?
Second question. Later, can I take the rage talent and gain Knockback so that I can do damage while I bull rush even if I don't take the barbarian line of feats?
Well Haria, comes from Solitude, enjoys special treatment and protection by the commanders there, due to her elven heritage. Though she is very much an assassin in training, very charming in nature to get her way.
Planning on having her sent on a mission up north by the Last Watch commanders, perhaps also indirectly by the elves.
And your neck looks very nice for some healing drink...
Only background to be completed and favoured class option to be selected.
oh thats right, you are the elven assassin.
You know, we are very heavilly melee focused >.>
we have 2 fighters, an assassin, a lycan and a channeler XD
Gang up teamwork feats anyone?
Edit: Crunch is done minus (13!!) skills and about 100 gold.
Backstory coming next :)
She comes with a shortbow and a bunch of daggers for range, has high dex score for getting out of trouble, well maybe into trouble too. Also has precise shot to do range into melee fights.
Seeing you a imperial soldier looking for a mission, I think, our two characters could have travelled together on same mission (or different ones, considering assassins normal don't tell of their actual missions in the first place).
I like the idea of us going on a mission together but I do not actually know what your real mission is.
BTW Crunch is done! Just need to spend 30 gold (not enough for a potion >.>)
and I have lots of cross class skills -_-
Don't see any information on your profile page.
I have no idea yet, waiting for the game thread to come up to see what he has planned, then work out a mission for her.
ya, I havnt ported anything over from my phone to the alias, so until later tonight I cannot put it up :(
Oki, background mostly up. Got to create a few names for the place holders. Also add the part getting her from Solitude to start of adventure.
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@Haria
Favored Class Options: Most Morgral are Channelers or Rogues, but some of them take levels in Noble Dead class.
o Channeler: Gain + ¼ caster level when casting spells of necromancy school.
o Rogue: Add ½ bonus on Stealth and Perception checks when made in dim light or darkness.
@Alex
You have to choose do you want to enchant it as a weapon or as a shield each time, yes.
If you mean Advance Ancestral Legacy, you can not take it before it becomes magical on its own. Which means, 3rd level.
@Ergo
Looking good.
@All
I'll start the game thread when all of you post here with at least partially finished characters. As of now, we're waiting for Yarovuk, I think.
There we go, crunch is completed and in the alias (except for 1 feat and 30 gp)
I am too tired to do fluff right now so i will do that in the morn.
Thanx for the Favoured Class Options, will decide by end of the day, what to take.
@Haria
Favored Class Options: Most Morgral are Channelers or Rogues, but some of them take levels in Noble Dead class.
o Channeler: Gain + ¼ caster level when casting spells of necromancy school.
o Rogue: Add ½ bonus on Stealth and Perception checks when made in dim light or darkness.@Alex
You have to choose do you want to enchant it as a weapon or as a shield each time, yes.
If you mean Advance Ancestral Legacy, you can not take it before it becomes magical on its own. Which means, 3rd level.
@Ergo
Looking good.
@All
I'll start the game thread when all of you post here with at least partially finished characters. As of now, we're waiting for Yarovuk, I think.
I believe he posted up near the top of this page of the thread...
Tough decision: HP point, extra skill, or bonus to Perception and Stealth every 4 levels?
Yep, he posted almost at the top for checking his character.
Hmmm. In your case, the extra hp would be good because you have very little hps for a front line, healing reduced char. However, the +1 perception and stealth... is +1 per and stealth at lvl 4 worth more than +4 hp? I would probably go with the hps.
Also, you got 62 gold, you might want to think about MWK Tools for stealth, persuasion or UMD (and don't forget to factor in your thieves tools!)
Also, you spent a point in deplomacy and persuasion (now 1 skill), so you got a free skill point there.
Next thought. I could take advance ancesteral legacy twice at lvl 3 and twice at lvl 4 and have a +5 weapon at lvl 4 >.> (btw NOT doing this...)
Lastly, since we have 4 melee chars and extra feats, any of you thinking of getting some teamwork feats in the next few levels? Specifically I am thinking of duck and cover (essentially roll reflex saves twice and you guys get +2 AC), outflank (bonus to hit when flanking, hint, Haria), percise strike (bonus flanking damage), Shielded caster (gives Ergo +6 concentration checks, just for standing next to me), or maybe something else? If any of you DO want to take a teamwork feat, I'll be happy to join you :-)
Thanx for picking up the double skill point spend. Fixed skill list.
I used up my feats. I generally going to keep the gesalted feat slots for morgral development, next bonus feat will be dodge (limited list to choose from). Normal progression feats would be for anything that would help assassin abilities.
Also background is rather complete, except for names and mission to up north. So anyone can see if they can hook up in background wise.
Primary focus is ranged combat, though with decent str for melee combat.
Did not have enough for masterwork tools. Could maybe get some when I get enough gp.
yikes, looks like i had lost my dot on this thread. i had been looking for it, but turns out i was looking for recruitment instead of discussion, so i didnt see anything.
Thanks Gobo for the PM!
No problem :)
I kinda figured something like that had happened
sweet!