With a starting 12 in charisma, a summoner would be a fine non-offensive caster. Spend every round throwing out buffs and heals, while letting your eidolon go to town. The bonuses you get from leveling and magic items will always keep you at your top spell level.
Starting with a 12 caster stat isn’t even that unusual for a 6 spell level class. Ive seen more than a few warpriest builds statted out that way.
What? none of what you just said makes any sense at all. read everyone elses examples and you'll learn why its better. Either way, my group has a great distaste for Synthesist because they don't understand the skill ceiling of it so I can't play it unless the whole group is fine with it.
They were saying that your mental stats are going to be horrible anyway, regardless if you fuse with the Eidolon. You are better off having the poor stats and your own set of actions, in addition to the Eidolon taking its own set of actions.
I say do both. Dip into Synthesist for a level (or 5), and then take another class that grants a companion creature that you can boost with Boon Companion, to do your other dirty work.
The synthesist is almost always a downgrade from the base summoner. Having two pools of actions is just too good.
how about a few character suggestions for roleplay to make the character lively and fun instead of a character based on game mechanics
You can do that with any character, no matter the stats. Be a prince or a pauper. Proud or noble. Miner or scholar. The stats don’t really matter. But this thread is about the stats.
A level 1 Biped synthasist half-elf summoner would look like this while their Eidolon is up:
16, 12, 13, 10, 7, 12
and this while its down
7, 10, 10, 10, 7, 12
They will have 2 spells per day, and 3 points in their evolution pool. With Fused Link, you can keep your Eidolon shell on yourself by sacrificing your normal hit points which will just be 8. If you get caught without your Eidolon shell, remember that you can use your Summon Monster abilities as synthasist doesn't replace this class feature allowing you to serve some minor function if you get caught with your pants down.
It is worth noting that while your traditional armor does not function when wearing an Eidolon, an Eidolon does not prevent you from carrying a shield if you can find a mage friendly shield. A mithral quickdraw steel shield or mithral buckler could be a valuable buy later into the game.
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Well when you are super limited in spell slots due to a low casting stat and wont likely be of any use with martial weapons the base summoner is wasting potential. With a max of 12 for the casting stat base they would be far better off going synthesist and making their spells be self buff/recovery rather than going normal summoner getting 1 or 2 spells per day to buff others have their eidolon do stuff but not have any actions at all once they are out of spells.
Except you will have the eidolon doing the actual fights, while the summoner does the buffing and stays out of danger. If the eidolon dies, the summoner can still be protected by his 3 + Cha summons per day.
Synthetist doesn't add anything to the eidolon alone combat-wise, and in addition it doesn't allow the summoner to buff and fight at the same time, while putting him in direct danger.
<light-bulb click>
Player: "Let me reroll this putrid garbage, or I'm doing a first-playtest version Summoner!"
Well when you are super limited in spell slots due to a low casting stat and wont likely be of any use with martial weapons the base summoner is wasting potential.
The difference in number of spell slots per day for a starting 12 and a starting 18 isn't that big. They're the same at 1st level. And they only get a few more spells per day over the next few spell levels, which is nice, but hardly character defining.
The only real limitation for the 12 is that their DCs are going to be weak, but the summoner has some of the best buffing spells in the game, so it's not a big deal.
A gnome summoner could at least start with 12s in Cha and Con
Is a GM who's uber-strict on 4d6-one-ping-only permitting sky's-the-limit splatbook archetypes?
Look, Evan, with these stats the player needs to rely upon a companion in order to function. Summoner has been suggested as its the easiest method to do so. I have also been pushing Synthasist because with these stats it works a bit like a super suit or being a power ranger. Normal useless teenager with the power to suit up and fight the forces of evil. You already have a player here who is willing to gimp themselves with poor stats, you don't need to worry extensively about them building some kind of cheese synthasist. This doesn't seem to be the TCs MO.
Sure, there are other classes that might work out decently. We could be a goblin gunslinger with 14 dexterity and prey that nothing ever has a high touch AC because we have at least -1 if not -2 to our main stat. Note, a bolt ace won't work here because we NEED to be targeting touch AC and no race but Goblin will work since we need a 14 dexterity to even consider trying a martial class.
Best bet is still spellcasting and things with fixed stats. We could be any 9th level spellcaster with an animal companion like a druid, a cleric, a moon or nature oracle. Of course, we can't ever cast an offensive spell with a saving throw or an attack roll with these classes as both our DCs and attack rolls are worthless. The advantage these 3 classes also have is that they can focus on summoning spells, allowing you to flood the board with minions.
The other pet classes don't work for one reason or another. Spiritualist dies horribly because of how short its tether is, leaving them super vulnerable in combat. The Hunter class and Sacred Hunstmaster Inquisitor both fall flat as they assume your main character isn't a pile of silly putty and can participate in combat in a meaningful manner.
Shaman, Wizard, and Witch all suffer greatly under these stats as (again) our DCs and attack rolls all suck and our companion is significantly less useful than an animal companion when our stats are so pathetically low.
However, you could also step off and let the player try and salvage the build on their own without crying about summoners breaking your game before you even see the player run their character based on one bad experience with a munchkin. This player accepted the stats and is trying to build something for your campaign, let him have a chance to show you what kind of player he is.
Naw, I'm good, thanks. Your player wanted advice, he's getting it. If you don't like where the advice is going, that's not really my problem. Its a shame that the TC can't use the advice since you're being difficult, but I'll keep answering his questions as long as he keeps asking them.
Speaking of ways to tweak this further, should you find yourself stuck without the option of playing a Summoner for whatever unreasonable reason I do highly suggest playing a druid. Once you get to level 4 you can spend most of the adventuring day as a small bird fly around raining down summon nature ally spells. In the meantime, you can have your animal companion fight for you. You're never going to get to have all the fun of dropping lightning storms while being a bird due to your abyssal DCs, but just flood the board out with summoned monsters and you'll be fine.
Make sure to print out some cards, and have a good time. There is no limit to the number of summoned allies you can have out on the field and with Superior Summoning you can conjure a TON of them. Flood the board with wolves and have a ball.
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i applauded him for CHOOSING the lower attributes, great good for him.
I'd never applaud a player for doing something like that. Especially with these stats. See, the problem here is that these stats aren't just bad. They are boring bad. It's a mostly flat stat array. It's humdrum. There's nothing interesting to do with it, other than try to get around it. It's just a field of meh.
i applauded him for CHOOSING the lower attributes, great good for him.I'd never applaud a player for doing something like that. Especially with these stats. See, the problem here is that these stats aren't just bad. They are boring bad. It's a mostly flat stat array. It's humdrum. There's nothing interesting to do with it, other than try to get around it. It's just a field of meh.
I'd say it's worse than this, because the hard truth is, ability score don't matter that much. A Summoner with this stat array is still way stronger than a martial on 20 or even higher point buy (or respective rolls).
All the low stat array really does is severly limit the choices.bad issues with it in the past: a player went, Halfling Inv Barbarian 2, Unbreakable Fighter 1, Oracle Lore 1, Synth Summoner the remaining levels, and the eidolon became a nightmare of note taking
What was that PC's default action first round of combat?
Ok, let me rephrase that: In surprise combat (i.e. no preparation time, only buffs above min/level active), how did a typical first turn of that PC look like?
If you're going to play a Druid Summoner, might I suggest you look at some available Alchemical Reagents?
Summon Swarm on top of a Spellcaster by using Itching Powder as a Material Cost increases the Swarm's distraction DC by 2 points. Spirit of Wine costs 3g for 6 uses that can increase the duration of your summons by 1 round. Great for summoners who are low level that need to keep their summons around for a little longer.
Additionally, you can look into creating an Alchemist that focuses on throwing around Alchemical Items by purchasing said items at 1/3rd the cost by crafting them yourself. It'll be even better when you get Swift Alchemy and the Master Alchemist feat when you can make several Akrotus's Flames for 33g each in 2-3 hours. Just be careful not to get into melee.
I'm actually making a guide to Alchemical Items right now, and it should be done before the weekend. A character like this reminds me of Adlet - a completely normal guy with nothing special about him but he has but tones of items that make him feel like Batman.
Pardon my spelling auto correct is playing tricks on me.
I too am going to suggest a half elf summoner. Wild caller.
Str 7
Con 10
Dex 7
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 12
You could be older if you like.
Take a trait for intimidate as a class skill, like old cults or the one for summoners.
Take skill focus intimidate for your half elf feat and Wasp Familiar as your 1st level feat. You could switch dex and wis if you wanted.
Your familiar will be a protector archetype helping you stay alive.
Your eidolon will be the fighter. Attacking and providing some extra skills.
In combat you will attempt to intimidate whenever you are not casting or using a cantrip.
This should leave you reasonably durable with actions in combat that help and at least a few skills.
RP wise you a crotchety old man who can have a temper and a vengeful streak.
If your group agreed to rolls and you accepted these stats, don't see it as a punishment, see it as a challenge.
Build a cool character concept, with an awesome story and try your very best to keep that little sucker alive and at least trying to contribute.
If you're allowed summoner or Bard focused on buffing, then I think you go there. Otherwise, anything will do.
I would suggest a little halfling, maybe with a gimpy leg. He's not necessarily the most likable, and even maybe a little forgettable to most NPCs due to his Charisma. But dammit if he isn't the nicest and most polite little fella.
As long as you aren't playing with power gamers or munchkins then your statistical ineptitude may even make you revered in your party dynamic. "You there, Ogre!! Nobody messes with my little dude!!!"
I rolled low...what should I make?
Your time. Because you have no chance to survive.
normally she would engage it in melee.
I expected as much, and that is about why Synthesist is problematic.
A regular Summoner's eidolon can already outshine most martials, and it's but one of a Summoner's multiple class features. But it's hard to feel resentful towards a Summoner who buffs you with Haste every combat (and possibly other buffs, it's not like he has anything better to do), thus significantly increasing your combat prowess. A Synthesist on the other hand has the same spotlight stealing power, but (as often played at least) without the feelgood effects from infight buffs.
This is why Synthesist, although significantly weaker than regular Summoner, is so often rejected: It tends to screw inter-party balance, thus making players feel bad. A regular Summoner is less likely to do that (although it can happen, depending on the other PCs, and the players' system mastery).
For this reason, while i fully understand your resentfulness regarding Synthesist, I think you should be a bit more open minded towards Summoner, and not let your bad experience with Synthesist affect your judgement too much.
im open to summoner just not synthesist
If I were your GM, I'd rather you played the double-18s reroll array as just about anything else. You'll be less likely to upstage the other players without a pet monster.