| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hear, hear. :D
I was sort of "on the other side" in that thread, but hopefully you didn't take any hard feelings from it. We both want 2e to be as awesome as it can be, and we both have faith that Paizo will pull that off. Here's hoping they give us a cleric we can both be excited about. :)
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Quick someone bust out the ale and sing a prayer to Caden, we got positive posting on the Playtest forums!
Real talk though. I've been watching and mostly playing fairly quietly (And watching the forums burn like a fireplace with a mug of hot cocoa and a blanket), I think Pathfinder Second Edition will do alright. The game is a vast improvement over what Pathfinder started as, and will only get better. Change just hurts, and when you have a community as entrenched as the Pathfidner one (Read maginot line levels of entrenched), well we've seen the shelling that happens here on the daily.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hey, Excaliburrover, that were exact my thoughts as I saw our thread was closed. It was a "oh they do acknowledge our problem". I second every single word of what you say.
I was really burnt by Doomsday Dawn and particularly by my GM. But I still do trust in that they CAN make Pathfinder 2.0 great, if they change enough.
Every single update makes steps in the right direction.
|
|
Dare I ask what happened with your GM?Hey, Excaliburrover, that were exact my thoughts as I saw our thread was closed. It was a "oh they do acknowledge our problem". I second every single word of what you say.
I was really burnt by Doomsday Dawn and particularly by my GM. But I still do trust in that they CAN make Pathfinder 2.0 great, if they change enough.
Every single update makes steps in the right direction.
My GM was frustated by the amount of criticism we players had about many things in pf2. He defended pf2 bitterly and fought against us, finally in forbidding us to say anything negative about. I even started to feel guilty if I wanted to say something negative. So I finally stopped playing. But I will at least try pf2 when it's finished.
And so I am quite happy about that our concerns were acknowledged by Mr. Bulmahn in his friendly words.
Wow, that sounds really unfortunate. I'm sorry you had that experience. :(
I'm a pretty ardent defender of PF2e, but halting discussion like that doesn't benefit anyone. >.<
Director of Game Design
|
| 12 people marked this as a favorite. |
My GM was frustated by the amount of criticism we players had about many things in pf2. He defended pf2 bitterly and fought against us, finally in forbidding us to say anything negative about. I even started to feel guilty if I wanted to say something negative. So I finally stopped playing. But I will at least try pf2 when it's finished.
And so I am quite happy about that our concerns were acknowledged by Mr. Bulmahn in his friendly words.
Yeah, sorry you had that experience.
We know that folks are going to find issues with the game. That is why we are doing the playtest. Critique is welcome, but we all have to remember that we are working toward a better game. While being overly critical just for the sake of being critical is not helpful, but neither is getting defensive over what someone feels is a problem.
Glad to hear you will give us a try when it is all done. I think you are going to like some of the directions the game is taking.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I've been saying it on loop, but Paizo is racking up the goodwill points with me throughout this playtest. I'm used to participating in Activision Blizzard beta tests where forums posters are treated with outright disdain, and no feedback is ever considered until after launch, if then.
No matter how this playtest goes (and it looks like the final product is going to be pretty sweet) I'll keep being a Paizo fan as long as they keep up this dedication to their supporters and craft.
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
I love the rigor that many on this forum use in their playtesting. I’ve had a lot of fun examining and scrutinizing the inner workings of PF2e. Reading all of the debate and discussion of RAW and RAI that occurs here has helped my own precision and understanding of GMing PF2e.
You guys have just given us so much good data through all the various venues. We're going to be able to make the game leaps and bounds better than it ever could have been without you!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yup Paizo has been fantastic through this whole thing. Prime example of how playtests should be run!
I'm sure you won't kill that CHA cleric build without giving it something in return, but just in case... Please don't do that!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have been encouraging my players to fill in the player surveys about anything they dislike (or like!) about the playtest. Sadly, I'm not sure any of them besides my wife is interested.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
DDD was not very enjoyable for me tun run, particularly since my players did not care for it, but I liked nearly every update thus far and 1.6 was very positive.
There are still a couple of areas where I would like to give some feedback, but finding the time to put it into words is taking some time.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
DDD was not very enjoyable for me tun run, particularly since my players did not care for it, but I liked nearly every update thus far and 1.6 was very positive.
There are still a couple of areas where I would like to give some feedback, but finding the time to put it into words is taking some time.
It has been brought to my attention, that I was unclear, my players are very invested in PFS/PF1 and thus were very motivated to playtest, but DDD.. to be fair almost every part had things that they as players (and partially me as GM) did not enjoy.
They forced themselves to continue for quite some time, but some aspects that might make DDD a good source to collect data, really made them quite unhappy. One example I can mention is that the very narrow nature of the first map is something none of us enjoyed irrespective of the edition.As GM I often felt like I needed more specific instructions on where to start players etc. but I am used to PFS where I often get that, and where you place the party has a pretty relevant effect on how a lot of combat turn out.
There are a couple other issues but the local playtest process helped us identify many of the areas we personally dislike, mention some problems were systems might not perform exactly as we like (the counteract system being one of them) and I hope that all the hours filling out surveys helped.
Of course, it was not necessarily a pleasant process for many of us, since we are very much invested in Pathfinder and thus want to help to shape this into a game we can all enjoy in the next years.
(Trying to scape those long DDD parts in between our regular offerings was kinda hard, the sceanrios were relatively easy to schedule, but DDD was very hard to judge on how long it would run).
The thing that annoyed my rather math savvy players the most, is how little investment in skills actually improved your success chances (being somewhat reliably good at skills is something they want to be able to accomplish) and that the math seemed to be off.
Even reducing AC/Saves/Skill of enemies by 2-3 points might have had a massive effect on their enjoyment (though doubling proficiency modifiers has also been requested).
To repeat again, they invested a lot of hours, time and effort into the playtest, but DDD was not fun to play (and I found it not too fun to run/prep since it felt more like an obligation to invest the time than something I wanted to run for fun).
Making characters (with Herolab) was one of the things I really enjoyed, but when I got to play the PFS scenarios, it was interesting to see what worked for me and what didn't (and the "nerf" to light sources was felt at lower levels).
I am still quite optimistic, but one thing that would really help me to get people locally hyped for the release, would be to get at least a limited chance to test a somewhat fixed math (more in the players favor is something I would welcome). It would not have to be huge, but shifting a couple of points might make players feel confident in their characters abilities, rather than just lucky with the D20.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Even though I find little to like in the new edition, I can also commend Paizo for their conduct during the playtest (even though I get snippy to some of their comments and decisions). I mean I understand the design decisions even though I don't like the philosophy behind them (and I think they are writing themselves in the corner with some things). And I can see that most of the rule updates are improvements, it's just they are not enough for me.