A rope dart is a 2 handed weapon, and it is considered ranged and kinda thrown. Can you fitness it since it is so light? If not do you get 1.5x strong? I what is the retrieval action? I know it is not as strong mechanically as a meteor hammer but rope darts have always been near to my heart and I would love to make a character based on that weapon. I believe that in real life meteor hammers and rope darts function similarly.
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A rope dart isn't a two-handed weapon it's a ranged weapon, so it wouldn't get the 1.5x strength bonus, but it would get the 1x strength bonus.
There's no need to finesse it, since it's ranged and therefor uses Dex for attack rolls already.
Retrieving it is a free action.
Excellent real world example.
How does that play out within RAW?
Thrown weapons use the wielder's strength modifier on attack and damage rolls. Since a rope dart has negligible weight I would assume it is a light weapon and can be used with weapon finesse.
Since a rope dart is a light weapon, I would assume you cannot wield it in two hands and thus would only benefit from your strength modifier and not 1.5 times your strength modifier.
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Thrown weapons do not use strength for attack rolls.
Checked again, Blackbloodtroll is correct, all ranged attack rolls use dexterity modifier. Thrown weapons just use the wielder's strength modifier on damage.
If you have a high strength modifier the Two handed thrower feat might come in handy.
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Belt of Mighty Hurling allows you to use Strength for attack rolls with thrown weapons.
It is in Ultimate Equipment.
The rope dart is not a thrown weapon. It's just a normal ranged weapon that happens to not use ammunition; only melee weapons can be thrown. So you use Dex to attack and you never add your Str to damage.
Thrown weapons really need to be rethought, at least as far as Ultimate Combat is concerned. The kyoketsu shoge also has some problems; it's a blade on a 20 foot chain designed to be extended and retrieved, but it only actually functions if you pick up the entire device, chain and all, and lob it at your enemy.
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Why is a Rope Dart not a thrown weapon?
Shuriken are thrown weapons.
Thrown weapons are not required to be melee weapons.
Thrown weapons add strength to damage.
As rope dart is a ranged weapon, you can use ranged feats, such as multishot and rapid shot?
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http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/armsAndArmor/weapons.h tml
As stated in the UE book, "This deceptively complex weapon appears to be nothing more than a 12-foot rope attached to a 6-inch-long, conical metal spike. Similar to a meteor hammer, it can be whirled at great speeds, then aimed to strike and pierce opponents with great reach. Once it strikes, the wielder can quickly retrieve the weapon with a tug of the rope as a free action."
It is in fact a ranged weapon, but it also a thrown weapon. You use your dexterity to make attack rolls, and add only 1x your STR to damage rolls. Think of this item as having a free built in returning quality to it. It also has the monk property which means you can flurry with this weapon. Don't ask me how it's possible, but monks can do it. They're monks. They're cool like that.
As far as the ranged feats go, because the rope dart is a thrown ranged weapon, some ranged feats such as point blank shot, or rapid shot will work with the weapon as they do not specify the type of ranged weapon needed to use the feat. They simply say "ranged weapon."
Other feats such as many shot which specifically say "When making a full-attack with a bow ... " cannot be used with the rope dart.
A small thing to note as well is that nowhere does it say that the rope dart is a two handed weapon. However, because of the free action retrieval wielding a rope dart in both hands is essentially useless in terms of offensive output. This does mean though that you can hold another item in your other hand while attacking with this weapon.
Actually, that sounds pretty nice. An actual good thrown weapon to enchant, since it doesn't have the weakness of other thrown weapons (returning property returns at the end of turn so you cant full attack with a single one). You can get 3 attacks with this right away like the shuriken, but it has a bit higher damage and better range, and some extra properties.
Weird that the fluff description has it with a 12 foot rope but 20 feet range...
I wonder if I could use this weapon as a whip with This. I do have 12 feet of rope in hand...
Also wondering if it shrinks like other thrown weapons when thrown; technically, I keep holding part of it.
If you think that's weird, try looking at the range increment max for thrown weapons. Something along the lines of 5 times the base range? 12 foot rope-dart being thrown out to 100 feet. No reason you can't throw it out that far, but I doubt the GM would allow you to pull it back. Perhaps GMs will only allow you to pull it back to yourself if you're within 10 feet of the target? I don't know. Gotta love them loopholes.
Rope dart has no range increment according to the weapons table, so no to that at least.
LoneKnave wrote: Actually, that sounds pretty nice. An actual good thrown weapon to enchant, since it doesn't have the weakness of other thrown weapons (returning property returns at the end of turn so you cant full attack with a single one). You can get 3 attacks with this right away like the shuriken, but it has a bit higher damage and better range, and some extra properties.
Weird that the fluff description has it with a 12 foot rope but 20 feet range...
I wonder if I could use this weapon as a whip with This. I do have 12 feet of rope in hand...
Also wondering if it shrinks like other thrown weapons when thrown; technically, I keep holding part of it.
Hum....an equipment trick:Rope trick dude with a rope dart sounds like a really cool character idea....wonder how it would hold up in play....
Well, it's stupidly feat intensive, that's for sure. You also get a bunch of nice tricks though.
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LoneKnave wrote: Rope dart has no range increment according to the weapons table, so no to that at least. Beneath both the eastern arms and armor table and the ultimate equipment arms and armor table, the rope dart has a range increment of 20.
SwiftyKun wrote: LoneKnave wrote: Rope dart has no range increment according to the weapons table, so no to that at least. Beneath both the eastern arms and armor table and the ultimate equipment arms and armor table, the rope dart has a range increment of 20. You are correct; I mixed it up since http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/armsAndArmor/weapons.h tml doesn't have a weight entry.
The Whip is also a ranged weapon.
For use, consider the crazy teenager at the end of the movie Kill Bill, part 1. She also is flurrying when in close with the heroine.
/cevah
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How does a rope dart function?
GET OVER HERE!
That's how XD
It has a ranged increment like any other ranged weapon, but if you want to throw it farther than 10 feet, you must release the rope to do so, losing the quick-return feature. Also, since it's a ranged attack and not a melee attack with reach, it provokes AoO to attack with it; keep that in mind.
Kazaan wrote: It has a ranged increment like any other ranged weapon, but if you want to throw it farther than 10 feet, you must release the rope to do so, losing the quick-return feature. Also, since it's a ranged attack and not a melee attack with reach, it provokes AoO to attack with it; keep that in mind. I don't see anything in the description about how far it can be thrown without being released...Why do you say 10 feet instead of 15 or 20 feet? Is there a statement somewhere about that?
The reasoning that it's ten feet before you have to let go, is that in the flavor text describing the item it says that the item is on a 12 foot rope with a 6 inch dart.
You are correct however in that it doesn't say you can only retrieve the item if you're within a certain range of an enemy. I'm willing to give the benefit of a doubt that they didn't catch this "12 foot rope with 20 foot range increment" bug, but I'm not saying they didn't do this on purpose. Again, throwing a 12 foot reaching item out to 100 feet and retracting is a little...impossible, though nothing in the rules says you can't.
As SKR said, they can and will take advantage of the basic rules of common sense in order to save space rather than waste time and, more importantly, book space explaining the bloody obvious. It doesn't explicitly say that you can't retrieve the dart by tugging on the rope if you throw it farther than the length of the rope would allow while still holding the rope... it shouldn't have to. No sane person should require that extra info. It's just over 10 feet of rope; enough slack for a good handhold plus 10 more feet. If you threw it and then let go of the rope, yeah, it will fly out of your hand and use that 20' range increment but you can't retrieve it as a free action by tugging on the rope... for obvious reasons. Dead characters can't act, despite it not being explicitly outlined in the rules.
Then this weapon is in every way inferior to a Meteor Hammer. You have the same reach (yeah I know the range is 10' but who is gonna use a ranged weapon that is limited to 10' unless you toss it away totally)with it, the MH does more damage and it is able to be used against adjacents...
Rope dart is a crap weapon with a stupid feat tax just to use it.....
Insert Admiral Ackbar reference here...
Along the same thinking sense though, doesn't this mean one can simply just add on more lengths of rope to increase the retracting zone?
You would think it would be easier to tie up to 90 feet more length of rope to rope, than to add chain to a meteor hammer.
Edit: Also, the advantages that the rope dart has over the meteor hammer. Much longer range, can be flurried, you don't incur two-weapon fighting penalties if you don't have the feats, and they both require exotic weapon prof.
If I had to make a ruling, I would say the person in question is indeed allowed to add lengths to the rope to a maximum of 100 feet of rope. He suffers the normal penalties for throwing extra range lengths, and the rope itself does not interfere with the aim of the dart.
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Well, by browsing around this Paizo forum and some other pathfinder discussions about the rope dart in question. I have come to this conclusion.
Things that are generally accepted about the rope dart.
1. It is a ranged weapon, even if held by the rope within 10 feet.
2. It has the blocking attribute, but fighting defensively is not restricted to melee only.
3. The dart can be thrown up to 100 feet, and despite the flavor text can be retracted within 20 feet or less. Any further and you must willingly let go of the rope and cannot retract the dart.
Things you should discuss with a GM that could change game to game.
1. The rope dart can only be retracted within 10 feet as per the flavor text.
2. The rope dart is either a two handed because you must retract it, or one handed because unlike other two handed ranged weapons, it does not say it requires two hands in it's description.
3. Adding rope to the Rope dart should be okay, but you might incur other house ruled penalties, such as retracting taking a swift or move action rather than it being free.
All in all though, it really comes down to what you and your GM agree upon.
SwiftyKun wrote: 2. The rope dart is either a two handed because you must retract it, or one handed because unlike other two handed ranged weapons, it does not say it requires two hands in it's description. Where do I find the list of two handed range weapons? There are no light/one-handed/two-handed weapon categorys for ranged weapons. Some ranged weapons say they need two hands. This one does not. I could see tugging on the rope like cracking a whip: It causes the far end to snake back at you, flying through the air. Since your *are* proficient [right?], you carch it in the appropriate location and begin swinging it for your next attack.
Should it be a two handed weapon? Probably. But it does not actually say so. :-)
/cevah
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As a fire performer who has a collection of ropedarts i find this all interesting. the description of the weapon is correct apart for the fact that it takes 2 hands to wield, i use my left hand to control the length of the free rope and my right hand to direct the dart. other body parts are used to redirect the dart, speed it up, and chose the direction of fire.
As for the range,my ropedarts are all 13-14 foot long and I often both step forward and reach in the direction of fire increasing my range. i would call 20' fair for game statistics but would refer to the dart as a reach weapon unless it is released to throw further as has been mentioned above.
I am playing a human monk who uses a ropedart as a range weapon.
see this video for a ropedart in action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxl0cRrCQoc
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I've rope darted for over a decade. Here are some real world guidelines for Darting:
The rope dart is absolutely a 2-handed weapon. It can be used by 1 hand 1 time for a single shot and release of the rope if there is another 1-handed weapon in the other hand. Any amount of using the dart with 1 hand requires the usage of the entire body in lieu of the other hand, rendering the empty hand useless for everything but holding a throwing knife or a pistol-type weapon.
It is primarily a piercing weapon aimed at soft/vital targets. Rapid shots can be successful and maintain power but aim diminishes with every subsequent attack and each successful hit can either deflect on bone or get stuck in flesh. It's unlikely you'd be doing multi-shots with each attack being successful....it's more like increasing your chances to hit by using more attempts.
It has the capability to slash when being spun in an arc if the tip is a blade instead of a conical weight, however once it hits an armoured or even bony target it will require a DEX check to retrieve it without injuring the user as it will change trajectory. If there is a team mate within the arc of the rope on said deflection, they are also in danger and need to roll accordingly.
It is a light weapon, but you would need exotic proficiency to use it. You would also absolutely require weapon finesse to wield it without blinding, nutting or entangling yourself. A 1-lb dart is considered [almost very] heavy by dart standards.
The range of the dart = the length of rope + length of blade + lunging distance + length of arm holding the rope. With a 12 ft rope, i can hit a target about 17 ft away. I am 5'11" for reference. Length of the rope + blade + 5 ft seems like a fair equation.
In regards to being thrown, it is useful ONLY to entangle. If the rope is released, it steals momentum rapidly from the dart rendering it ineffective for piercing/slashing.
As far as grading damage goes, (using real throwing knives as an example due to the rotational forces at play) a spinning blade carries immensely more power behind it than the strength of the user alone. Trying to use regular strength to bury a knife in a target vs. throwing it aren't even comparable. The spin generates all the penetration power. This is why i think adding the thrown weapon 1.5x strength modifier is accurate.
Retrieving is a free action unless you intentionally leave the dart extended to be grabbed so you can snare, entangle, and grapple with the rope.
If within 10 ft you miss the opponent, you are open to an AoO with a roll-chance to entangle the target.
Darts can be used as poorly-designed whips using the dart as the handle and the knotted tail as the cracker portion of the whip. Only effective on eyes, otherwise deals about 1 damage against a t-shirted opponent.
Adding 90 ft of rope to a 10 ft dart to get a 100 ft range is simply ridiculous. For a dart to work, the Dart Head must be >/= the weight of the rope. The rope must also be 1 piece to function on a combat level; no tying multiple ropes together. 100 ft of rope is also heavy and cumbersome, even fine silk. Anything longer than 15 ft of rope for a 6 ft human WILL present rope tangle problems. I also used to have a dart with about 30 ft of rope, and IMO anything longer than 16 ft of rope would require the retraction of the dart to no longer be a free action. The max effective range for a dart weighing near a pound would be maybe 40 ft tops and easily dodge-able. Effective piercing range is 4 ft.-> max length. Bashing/slashing range is any range of the arc.
So is there a way to actually do the scorpion “get over here” with it? Like mechanically. Like make a grapple/pull attack
I'd go with an aklys and the reposition maneuver.
This thread has been necro'ed three times now.
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McDaygo wrote: So is there a way to actually do the scorpion “get over here” with it? Like mechanically. Like make a grapple/pull attack You'd need the feat
hamatula strike
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