Are Clearsight Trinkets just magical Clearsight Goggles?

[ParaheliZ]

On Page 111 of the Armory, the list of magical items lists an item called a Clearsight Trinket, with an Item Level of 5, cost of 2,750 credits, and light bulk.

On Page 99, there is an entry for Clearsight Goggles on the list of technological items with the same item level and cost, negligible bulk, and a usage rate of 1 charge per hour, max 40.

The Clearsight Trinket doesn't have a description under Magical Items, but the description for Clearsight Goggles does mention a "trinket".

Clearsight Goggles wrote:

Those who explore environments obscured by fog, foliage, smoke, and other vision-impairing elements value clearsight goggles, a set of tight-fitting eyewear that can be worn under a helmet or even other eyewear. While you wear the goggles, fog, smoke, and similar gases don’t grant targets concealment from you, and vegetation doesn’t either. [u]The trinket provides no benefit against a target with total concealment.[/u]

Can the Clearsight Trinket just be considered to be a magical version of the Clearsight Goggles? Is there an entry for the Clearsight Trinket that I've missed?

[Styrofoam]

Funny that when you google clearsight trinket, this unanswered rules forum post is the top ranked result. Archives of Nethys indicates the clearsight trinket is not SFS legal. Am I missing any info?

[Styrofoam]

Guess this one, no one has an answer for? Well I will just have them be equal to clear sight goggles in my home game, and disallow them in my SFS games.

[Themetricsystem]

Honestly, from what I can tell, I think it's just a typo and the represent the same item.

[paul Riggs]

IF you have total concealment from me because of fog and I put on clear sight goggles can I see you? do you have any cover?

[HammerJack]

The item entry on clearsight goggles directly states that they provide no benefit against targets with total concealment.

[paul Riggs]

The problem with the description of clear sight goggles is that it is ambiguous " while you where the goggles fog smoke do not grant concealment from you" The last part seems to contradict the 1st or the author meant that if I hide behind a wall that gives me total concealment then the goggles give no benefit. The first part states that fog smoke and foliage give no concealment. if you are in one of those environments how can you have total concealment if I can see through fog and smoke? IT states that these environments grant no concealment. So on a flat plane in the fog how can you have total concealment if Fog give no concealment from the goggles. If the author could explain I would appreciate it. Thank you for chiming in and helping me to refine my question.

[HammerJack]

I don't see any disconnect. If the smoke or fog you are trying to see through would grant concealment, it does not. If the fog is thick and opaque enough that it would grant total concealment, your goggles don't do enough, and the target does still have total concealment.

[Xenocrat]

Agreed with Hamerjack, "total concealment" is a separate category that is not included in things that interact with "concealment." If something effects or negates both it would need to refer to "concealment and/or total concealment."

[Ravingdork]

I can't help but think they meant concealment in general (both concealment and total concealment), not just concealment specifically.

In any case, it totally isn't clear what the intent was. FAQ'd.

[HammerJack]

For what it's worth, this isn't the only case of separating the two. You could also look at the Targeting Computer armor upgrade, where the effect is to ignore concealment for your attacks, but total concealment is unaffected.

[Dracomicron]

The RAW makes the item(s) horrendously non-useful. Smoke and fog both grant Total Concealment if you're more than 5' into them. The utility of the goggles is literally an edge case, as you have to be on the edge of the fog for them to see you.

I would be happier if the items negated Concealment and converted Total Concealment to regular Concealment.

[Xenocrat]

It's useful for melee guys who like to play hide and seek in Fog Clouds or smoke grenades (especially those who have blindsense to find their target). Getting rid of that 20% miss chance is good.

If you want to completely see through this sort of stuff (also: walls), invest in Sense Through via an x-ray visor, one of two augmentations, or a serum for temporary use.

[Hmm]

Can you list those augmentations and serums, Xenocrat?

[Xenocrat]

Hmm wrote:

Can you list those augmentations and serums, Xenocrat?

Aeon Eye (magitech), Artificial Third Eye (cyber tech), X-Ray Serum.

[HammerJack]

If you're listing augmentation to completely see through smoke and fog, you forgot Echolocators (Active or enhanced).

Not so much for walls on that one, though.