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My home game group is starting up and I want to be the group Pilot.
I love the idea of a great big minotaur in the pilot seat and having some cow related humor involved.
Their innate ability to use maze technology and have a bonus to survival and piloting seems a no brainer
But
What class?
There will already be one, if not two soldiers in the group as well as a Solarian.
I was thinking either Envoy or Operative
Thoughts?
Putting skill ranks into Piloting each level will make you a decent pilot. This is needed for any of the other options.
Being a class that has Piloting as a class skill will make you a good pilot.
Taking the Ace Pilot theme will make you a good pilot no matter the class you take.
Taking Skill Synergy with Piloting being one of the skills will make you a good pilot no matter what class or theme you choose.
Taking Skill Focus in Piloting can make you a great pilot. Just be aware that if your class or theme gives you Piloting as a class skill, the +2 bonus from Skill Synergy will not stack with the +3 from Skill Focus.
So being a good or great pilot can be handled no matter what class you choose.
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So what class do you actually want to play?
You can almost ignore your species stats in this system and put in whatever you want, which gives you a lot of flexibility in your class
That is what I really like at Starfinder:
There is no "sorry, no other class X" or "If you want to be a X you have to take class Y".
(Almost) every class can fit every role. In my groups we had Technomancer and Mythic Pilots, Envoy Gunners and Soldier Science Officers.
Just take the class YOU like and then put some skillranks/feats into Pilot and DONE!
Of the two classes you mentioned that you were interested in trying, I'd say that an Operative would be, on average, a better pilot than an Envoy. This is mainly because the Envoy's main skill-pumping feature, Expertise, cannot be used on piloting checks, while the Operative's Edge feature will apply to piloting checks.
That being said, the other posters in this thread aren't wrong. If you find the Envoy's mechanics more interesting than the Operative's, go for it. But if you're looking for a character who is the absolute best at piloting a spaceship, it's hard to top an Operative. About the only class that really can is a Mystic with the Star Shaman Connection. Which could be fun if you want to throw some spellcasting into the mix.
When building a character, I like to get a feel for what everyone's concepts are, if only to avoid duplicating characters that might wind up trying to excel at exactly the same things (i.e. avoid having 2 specialized pilots or every single character in the party maxing computers).
The base classes and system is flexible enough to let any class fulfill any single role if you focus on it.
I mean, if I were playing and knew I had two Soldiers and a Solarian, I'd be tempted to play a Soldier as well, simply to prove that a 3 Soldier and one Solarian party can work fine outside of combat. Actual combats I would expect to be a cakewalk for such a party.
I could totally see a Solarian grabbing Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate, and Culture for example.
Soldier 1 might grab a bit of Int and the Scholar theme, grabbing Engineering, Physical Science, Medicine, and the Skill Synergy feat for Computers and Life Science, acting as science officer and knowledge guy.
Soldier 2 might grab some Wisdom and Death touched theme, picking up Survival, Perception, and the Skill Synergy feat for Sense Motive and Mysticism, acting like some hunter of the mystical.
Soldier 3 could then grab piloting and pretty much anything they wanted.
Soldier 3 is pilot, soldier 2 is gunner, soldier 1 is science officer/engineer, Solarian is captain. All major skills covered.
In terms of pure piloting ability, Operative is better, as combined with Skill Focus lets you take 10 on piloting rolls at level 7 and later, which will basically make you automatically succeed at every piloting roll except initiative. Stats also work out slightly better (12 Str/18 Dex/ 12 Int operative vs 12 Str/14 Dex/12 Int/14 Cha Envoy for example).
If the Solarian is thinking of being the face for the party, Envoy might end up usurping that role if you're not careful. On the other hand, if they had some other kind of focus in mind, then an Envoy makes sense in stepping up to fill that role.
If you're looking for the class that meshes the best with Nuar's stats and abilities its probably a melee Soldier to be honest. Either a Blitz or Hit and Run, 16 Str/14 Dex/12 Int. At 5th your either charging through difficult terrain as a Standard action, or using Nimble Fusilade to move 20 feet in between full attack swings (preferably with a reach weapon).
A switch hitting bombard build would also work well(14 Str/16 Dex/12 Int), carrying around a heavy weapon and switching to natural weapons if enemies engage you in melee range.
This is mainly because the Envoy's main skill-pumping feature, Expertise, cannot be used on piloting checks, while the Operative's Edge feature will apply to piloting checks.
Under "Actions" on page 322 it is stated "Class features and items affect crew actions only if specifically noted in the class feature or action." Does this mean I can't benefit from the skill bonus of operative's edge, or an envoy's skill expertise?
No. When actions taken in starship combat call for a skill check, any class feature that grants bonuses to or allows rerolls with the relevant skill applies when using that skill as part of starship combat. This is an exception to the rule.
posted Nov 28, 2017 | back to top
The FAQ names envoy expertise as something that works.
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I think he's saying piloting is not on the list of skills that expertise can be chosen for. If it was, I think we all agree it would apply in starship combat. But you can't select it in the first place.
Yeah, an envoy can no more use expertise on piloting than a Technomancer can use Techlore on piloting. From a class perspective, only the Operative and Star Shaman Mystic have any piloting advantage.
I think he's saying piloting is not on the list of skills that expertise can be chosen for. If it was, I think we all agree it would apply in starship combat. But you can't select it in the first place.
You just take skill focus in it. That will give you the same boost as the operative until 9 and then at 9 your expertise dice will apply to it.
I think he's saying piloting is not on the list of skills that expertise can be chosen for. If it was, I think we all agree it would apply in starship combat. But you can't select it in the first place.You just take skill focus in it. That will give you the same boost as the operative until 9 and then at 9 your expertise dice will apply to it.
I agree taking skill focus piloting as an envoy is a good idea. However, expertise dice will never apply to piloting in any context because you can't pick piloting.
On page 61 of the core rulebook it lists legal choices for skill expertise. These are sense motive (automatically chosen), bluff, computers, culture, diplomacy, disguise, engineering, intimidate, and medicine.
Piloting is not on that list. You can't pick just any skill and apply expertise dice.
Piloting is not on that list. You can't pick just any skill and apply expertise dice.
Beginning at 9th level, you have even greater expertise with skills to which you can add your expertise die that you have also selected with the Skill Focus feat.
For each such skill, once per day when rolling your expertise die to add to that skill, you may roll the expertise die twice and take the better of the two results. (bnw note, this part of the ability is mechanically almost worthless)
edit seeing if I misread that. The grammar on that is terrible
(edit edit) apologies for the thread derail. But it did stop a space mouse envoy from making a terrible mistake. Continue on with the creation of space cow)
Piloting is not on that list. You can't pick just any skill and apply expertise dice.
Beginning at 9th level, you have even greater expertise with (a) skills to which you can add your expertise die that (b) you have also selected with the Skill Focus feat.
For each such skill, once per day when rolling your expertise die to add to that skill, you may roll the expertise die twice and take the better of the two results. (bnw note, this part of the ability is mechanically almost worthless)
edit seeing if I misread that. The grammar on that is terrible
I bolded and added in the (a) and (b) to highlight the two prerequisites necessary. You have to (a) have the skill be one that you can ordinarily add your expertise die to (which piloting isn't one) and (b) select Skill Focus.
You can select Piloting for Skill Focus, but you can't make it a "skill to which you can add your expertise die," those are locked.
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So in skimming the responses, I'll take another position.
Putting skill ranks into Piloting each level will make you a decent pilot. This is needed for any of the other options.
Being a class that has Piloting as a class skill will make you a good pilot.
Taking the Ace Pilot theme will make you a good pilot no matter the class you take.
Taking Skill Synergy with Piloting being one of the skills will make you a good pilot no matter what class or theme you choose.
Taking Skill Focus in Piloting can make you a great pilot. Just be aware that if your class or theme gives you Piloting as a class skill, the +2 bonus from Skill Synergy will not stack with the +3 from Skill Focus.
Being a class that tends to take a high dex will help make you a good pilot. A glaring omission to me.
As a result, Operative and Mechanic leap to my mind since both need good dexterity scores. An Envoy will feel more like a captain but can pilot if built for it.
That said, you can consider what else your group needs. Obviously Operative and Mechanic are likely to be damage dealers where the Envoy is more of a support character.
Being a class that tends to take a high dex will help make you a good pilot. A glaring omission to me.
An envoy with longarms or heavy weapon proficiency (I am VERY fond of a soldier dip) should have their dex about the same if not higher than their charisma.
Your envoy abilities mean the contribution from an uber charisma tends to be overkill.
Standing in the back and buffing is kind of a meh contribution to the fight, but standing in the back buffing AND doing a fair bit of damage with an unwieldy weapon is really good. Dex is one of the few ways to increase your abilities at doing that.
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The biggest issue with making a dex-based Nuar Pilot Envoy is that you will not be able to start with a dex of 18 and have anything left for envoy charisma. Nuar take a minus to Dex, so it will take all your 10 starting attribute points to pump that dex to 18.
However... Nuar get a +2 boost to piloting. That means that a Nuar envoy with 12 STR 16 DEX 10 CON 12 INT 12 CHA and 10 Wis is just as good a pilot as another race that starts with an 18 Dex at being a pilot.
As much as I hate suggesting a soldier or operative dip to go with your Envoy, doing that would fix your resonance problem as a low charisma envoy.
Dipping Blitz soldier would give you a bonus to initiative and a bonus to your land speed, turning you into a speed 50 Nuar.
Dipping Operative would give you two skill foci and trick attack.
As the others have stated, you can make either Operative or Envoy work. Operative would be slightly easier, but Envoy could be a lot of fun.
What do you want to do?
Hmm
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Starting at a 16 instead of an 18 isn't that big of a deal,
If you start with the 18 you'll have the same stat mod as someone that started with the 16 from levels 5 to 9 and again at 15 to 19 (because a 16 goes up by 2. You'll also wind up with more balanced stats elsewhere.
.1 16 +3 18 +4
.5 18 +4 19 +4
10 19 +4 20 +5
15 20 +5 21 +5
20 21 +5 22 +6