GM Abraham |
Light Ray (Ex)
A lantern archon can fire beams of light to damage foes. These light rays have a maximum range of 30 feet. This attack overcomes damage reduction of any type.
Incorporeal (Ex)
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.
An incorporeal creature has no natural armor bonus but has a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus (always at least +1, even if the creature’s Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus).
An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see beyond the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect.
An incorporeal creature’s attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it. Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air. Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage. Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions. Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight.
An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Perception checks if it doesn’t wish to be. It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to its melee attacks, ranged attacks, and CMB. Nonvisual senses, such as scent and blindsight, are either ineffective or only partly effective with regard to incorporeal creatures. Incorporeal creatures have an innate sense of direction and can move at full speed even when they cannot see.
Any opinions about this question? My first instinct was to think that it would work because the beams of light are not a "corporeal source" but now I see that they are an Extraordinary ability, not SU or SP, which has me inclined to think that the incorporeal creature's "immune to all nonmagical attack forms" would apply. And yes, I see that the Archon's ability to overcome all DR will be irrelevant in this case.
This isn't just a theoretical question. I've got a party in PbP that is really struggling against some nasty incorporeal creatures. They're considering summoning some lantern archons to help them. So any opinions or pointers to relevant rulings will be greatly appreciated.
p.s. in the subject line I wrote: do they do FULL damage but actually the question should really be do they do FULL damage (as a non-corporeal source) or NO damage as a non-magical source.
Dave Justus |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A lantern archon is a corporeal creature. Any attacks coming from it are corporeal.
As you note, the beams are (EX) and so not magical. Personally, they seem pretty 'supernatural' to me, but that isn't how they are labeled.
The lantern archon's beams will fail to damage the incorporeal opponents (an even slightly kind GM would give a roll to know that before they were summoned.)
One minor point: As you correctly note "overcomes damage reduction of any type" strictly speaking seems to only apply vs. DR, not other things that reduce damage such as hardness or incorporeal. Personally, I think the strict reading is the best here, but it wouldn't be impossible to regard that sentence as meaning "overcomes any method of reducing damage" which would be quite different. That would make lantern archons even more powerful, and they already are a pretty powerful summon choice.
LordKailas |
I agree with Dave.
It's pretty cut and dry that the light rays are extraordinary abilities which are explicitly not magical and that incorporeal creatures can't be harmed by non-magical attacks. I can't even say that it's a typo since both Codex Archons and Ghaele Azatas have similar abilities which are also listed as being extraordinary not supernatural.
It "feels" like it should work, but by the RAW it doesn't :/