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Can a character who is wearing power armor make an unarmed strike without using the power armor's modification to unarmed strikes?
For example, if a level 20 vesk with Improved Unarmed Strike and 14 strength is wearing a level 5 Battle Harness (Damage 1d10B, STR 18), can they use, say, a tail slap to do 7d6 + 4 + 30 damage instead of 1d10 + 4 + 20?
Would they use their normal strength modifier (+2) or the strength modifier of the armor (+4)?
When you make an unarmed melee attack with the powered armor, it deals damage equal to the armor’s listed damage value plus its Strength modifier.
Also potentially relevant, from Armory:
Powered armors of Large or greater size use their own arms
and hands, rather than allowing the user to manipulate objects or weapons with their own hands. Operating such a suit of powered armor requires all your hands to be free (within the armor’s cockpit) and allows you use of all the armor’s hands. Large and bigger suits of powered armor have two arms and hands unless specified otherwise.Powered armors of Medium or smaller size allow the operator to use its own limbs (however many that is), and does not require any hands be free in order to operate the functions of the powered armor.
Realistically, I think this makes it clear that the answer to this question is no if the person is medium and wearing large armor, since they're remote controlling the armor from inside the cockpit. It leaves things open ended for a medium user in medium armor though.
So, power armor typically covers the entire body. It's not something you have on piecemeal. As a result, there are aspects of the armor that over-ride your normal every day rules.
1). You must use the power armor's mode of movement. If the armor's movement is 20 ft. Your movement is 20 ft. This is it's maximum land speed. If you have say.. the Blitz style for Soldier, you don't get the additional movement speed (see page 203).If it does not have flight capability, and you have wings of some type or a flight capability from some other source, that is negated and you can't fly without removing the power armor.
2). You use the power armor's strength modifier for all attack rolls although your strength may be higher.
3). There is no 'unarmed strike' with power armor. It's called an unarmed melee attack (also see Damage on page 203). This is an important distinction as feats that deal with unarmed strikes do not apply to this attack. Think of it this way. The armor itself is the weapon being used to deal damage. Not the strike. Kinda like Tony Stark in his power armor. Take him out of it and have him throw the same punch. Which did more damage and why? The power armor was responsible for the damage and not Tony Stark's impressive biceps.
So in answer to your questions.
No, the tail slap would use the power armor's unarmed melee strike. Which is the 1d10 + 4 damage.
So you may ask yourself, what is the advantages of powered armor? Playing a lvl 10 Vesk Soldier, I have often asked myself that and the answer comes down to 2 simple things. 1). Weapon slots make you VERY VERY versatile and 2). KAC is typically much higher in powered armor and some very potent upgrades only fit in powered armor.
Classes other than soldier can greatly benefit from powered armor although Soldiers still get the greatest usage out of it.
Lastly, if you are asking yourself the difference in an unarmed strike vs an unarmed melee attack think of it this way. Can your soft squishy hand punch through a brick wall? No.. it can't. Despite what the movies tell you.. it ain't happening. People who train to make unarmed strikes train in focusing that energy into a VERY small point and striking very vulnerable parts of their opponents. This is what give punches and kicks so much power. You put a LOT of energy and momentum in to a VERY small area (the knuckles or fore foot). It requires training and practice. The damage comes from that training and your own knowledge of your enemies weak points. Power armor is just hitting someone with an oversized hammer.
Hey Magyar5, thanks for replying. You make some really good points, but there are other issues that need to be clarified based on them (I'm hoping for a power armor & unarmed strike FAQ, honestly. I have no preference as to which way it goes, I just want to make sure my numbers are right).
1). You must use the power armor's mode of movement. If the armor's movement is 20 ft. Your movement is 20 ft. This is it's maximum land speed. If you have say.. the Blitz style for Soldier, you don't get the additional movement speed (see page 203).If it does not have flight capability, and you have wings of some type or a flight capability from some other source, that is negated and you can't fly without removing the power armor.
2). You use the power armor's strength modifier for all attack rolls although your strength may be higher.
Agreed 100%.
3). There is no 'unarmed strike' with power armor. It's called an unarmed melee attack (also see Damage on page 203). This is an important distinction as feats that deal with unarmed strikes do not apply to this attack. Think of it this way. The armor itself is the weapon being used to deal damage. Not the strike. Kinda like Tony Stark in his power armor. Take him out of it and have him throw the same punch. Which did more damage and why? The power armor was responsible for the damage and not Tony Stark's impressive biceps.
This raises some issues if it's true (I'm not saying it isn't, mind. This is actually how I'm interpreting the rules until there's some clarification).
All weapons, including unarmed strike, are categorized as either basic melee, advanced melee, small arms, longarms, heavy, sniper, or special. It would be really weird (and I would argue a bad precedent) if power armor was an exception to that. If it has no category, there would be no way to determine proficiency or if feats like weapon focus/specialization should interact. If it does have a category, it should be stated. I'm assuming it's meant to be an unarmed strike that replaces you basic one and can't benefit from things like natural weapons or IUS (as you mentioned, the armor is punching on your behalf, not you). Nothing in the text implies this ruling though, so I think it should be clarified one way or the other.So you may ask yourself, what is the advantages of powered armor?
It's also rad! :D
Lastly, if you are asking yourself the difference in an unarmed strike vs an unarmed melee attack think of it this way. Can your soft squishy hand punch through a brick wall? No.. it can't. Despite what the movies tell you.. it ain't happening. People who train to make unarmed strikes train in focusing that energy into a VERY small point and striking very vulnerable parts of their opponents. This is what give punches and kicks so much power. You put a LOT of energy and momentum in to a VERY small area (the knuckles or fore foot). It requires training and practice. The damage comes from that training and your own knowledge of your enemies weak points. Power armor is just hitting someone with an oversized hammer.
This I think is what confuses me the most. I've been looking at specialization and IUS as being based on technique, not brute force. So it seems odd to me that the hypothetical vesk above has a much weaker attack when using a strength enhancing, armored suit (most of the art showing vesk shows them in PA with articulated tail armor) than they would when using their non-power-assisted, non-armored tail.
Anyways, thanks again for your answer. Good things to consider.
Powered armor does not override your character's stats except where explicitly called out. Nothing in the rules for powered armor say you can't make an unarmed strike, so you can. Furthermore, you would benefit from the increased strength when doing so.
I have been reviewing the rules around unarmed strikes in Starfinder and this isn't the first time we've seen this come up in this faq and I am wondering why all the hype around unarmed strikes?
Unarmed strikes in Starfinder are pretty awful. Here's the only entry in the players handbook explicitly talking about unarmed strikes.
Unarmed Strike
An unarmed strike can be dealt with any limb or appendage. Unarmed strikes deal nonlethal damage, and the damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus to weapon damage rolls.
This is a 1d3 bludgeoning, nonlethal, basic melee weapon attack. If you take the improved unarmed strike feat, your damage goes up, you threaten squares, and it's considered lethal damage. It caps out at 7d6 damage. That's a range of 7-42 damage at lvl 20. That's not very good compared to other weapons in the book.
You don't get to make additional attacks (full attacks are just 2 per round) and you can't add fusions to your unarmed strikes.
I guess, that while I still maintain that since powered armor covers your entire person and can't move at all without power, that it wouldn't benefit from the unarmed strike feat. Further, in the improved unarmed strike feat it explicitly states that you must have the appendage available to make the attack. This means that for Large powered armors, you wouldn't be able to make unarmed strikes at all. I am just wondering what the fascination is with unarmed strikes in Starfinder. For the life of me, I can't see why any player would prefer them over armed strikes as weapons can have all kinds of additions and fusions and augments that make them better.
For those times when you get unarmed, and don't have a backup weapon within easy reach.
For when you're taken prisoner.
For when you want to impress a mate with your raw power.
Yeah, basically what Ravingdork and Pantshandshake said. Plus, it scales decently as you level so you can put all your credits into your main weapon(s) and armor and still have a decent backup weapon.
If you are having weapon problems.. especially disarmed weapons, Called is the fusion for you. Even if disarmed you can call it back to you easily. Even if it's in the grip of someone else.
If ur a prisoner .. well.. get ur kung fu on.
All that being said... if those are the reasons for the questions.. what do those have to do with power armor? You can't easily be disarmed in power armor. Your weapon can be sundered.. but not easily disarmed. If you are a prisoner.. I imagine they aren't going to keep you locked up with your power armor. And if u wanna impress ur mates with ur raw power.. play a Vesk and use your claws to rip an enemy in half!
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...play a Vesk and use your claws to rip an enemy in half!
This is more possible than ever with the soldier's new Unarmed Mauler gear boost from Armory.
What I'm seeing is that power armor is a poor choice for blitz soldiers, as well as meleers early on who can potentially outclass the strength bonus of the power armor by themselves (Jarlslayer's 29 str is a bit harder to beat). They're a great tool, but won't be the "best-in-slot" gear as it were, for every soldier out there.
Minor nitpick: powered armor strength scores can go as high as 31, possibly higher if leveled up.
Minor nitpick: powered armor strength scores can go as high as 31, possibly higher if leveled up.
Which one goes that high when bought up? The last time I looked at it I thought the low-to-mid levels don't benefit from being bought up to level 20 and competing with the Starguard (strength 30), but I didn't think to look at the level 15+ ones.
Crunching the numbers, it looks like the highest possible Strength score is 31, whether you're buying a standard power armor, or leveling up a low-level one.
Hi everyone.
Since an FAQ is out about "unarmed strike with powered armor".
-I was wondering how IUS improved this unarmed strike ?
We can choose when to replace the dommage dice, isn't it ?
-And futhermore, I'm pretty sure that now the specialisation for the Vesk that gives you 1,5 Level dommage doesn't work with powered armor unarmed strike ? Since both are special unarmed strike.
Thanks