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Hello all,
I wanted a point clarified regarding an Alchemist's Advanced Alchemy daily preparations. According to the text:
" . . . You don’t need to attempt a Crafting check to do this, and you ignore the number of days typically required to create the items and any requirements of alchemical reagents. . . ."
Does this mean that they ignore the gold requirements to create their daily allotment of alchemical items, that they ignore the rare reagents that crafting mentions with regard to settlements in the crafting section, or both of the former possibilities? Based upon the text, it is unclear.
If they are required to pay gold costs, I can see this being a significant disadvantages. On the other hand, given how powerful the later alchemical formula are (particularly the common poisons such as Black Lotus extract), I can see it being problematically powerful.
Edit: Quick Alchemy clearly removes the monetary costs of alchemy.
Quick Alchemy also only lasts a round or two with the right feat.
Yes, Quick Alchemy only lasts a round or two depending upon feat selection. I was just pointing out that Quick Alchemy explicitly removes the monetary costs whereas Advance Alchemy does not explicitly do so.
I wanted to clarify because mutagens, for example, do not qualify for Quick Alchemy thus making a mutagen alchemist potentially very non-renewable resource expensive relative to alternatives.
Klladdy wrote: Yes, Quick Alchemy only lasts a round or two depending upon feat selection. I was just pointing out that Quick Alchemy explicitly removes the monetary costs whereas Advance Alchemy does not explicitly do so.
I wanted to clarify because mutagens, for example, do not qualify for Quick Alchemy thus making a mutagen alchemist potentially very non-renewable resource expensive relative to alternatives.
Compare black lotus to an 9th, 10th level spell. Because that's what alchemist gets.
Basically, someone can print the alchemical fire cost as 1 billion go cost, that doesn't make it Worth that much in actual usage though.
In effect, most low level alchemical items need their cost reduced to 1/10th of what they are now (like 3sp per vial) if they are supposed to substitute for what every other class does atm at will.
Or, better yet, give 0 RP "lesser items" at will for the alchemist (like cantrips)
As for the original question, considering that Advanced Alchemy says that they ignore reagents, I take it that it is free. Class would be literally unplayable if not, it's already borderline useless after lvl 7 or so.
Replacing spellist with purely mundane items that for some reason still cost magic essence to activate wasn't balanced well (still, that's what a playtest is for)
shroudb wrote: Klladdy wrote: Yes, Quick Alchemy only lasts a round or two depending upon feat selection. I was just pointing out that Quick Alchemy explicitly removes the monetary costs whereas Advance Alchemy does not explicitly do so.
I wanted to clarify because mutagens, for example, do not qualify for Quick Alchemy thus making a mutagen alchemist potentially very non-renewable resource expensive relative to alternatives.
Compare black lotus to an 9th, 10th level spell. Because that's what alchemist gets.
Basically, someone can print the alchemical fire cost as 1 billion go cost, that doesn't make it Worth that much in actual usage though.
In effect, most low level alchemical items need their cost reduced to 1/10th of what they are now (like 3sp per vial) if they are supposed to substitute for what every other class does atm at will.
Or, better yet, give 0 RP "lesser items" at will for the alchemist (like cantrips)
As for the original question, considering that Advanced Alchemy says that they ignore reagents, I take it that it is free. Class would be literally unplayable if not, it's already borderline useless after lvl 7 or so.
Replacing spellist with purely mundane items that for some reason still cost magic essence to activate wasn't balanced well (still, that's what a playtest is for)
That was my take as well. I wanted to make sure that I had that right. On a related note, does Quick Alchemy even work for most poisons because the action cost to apply the poison and then deliver it? Does the 1 round aspect also make an applied contact poison inert after 1 round if nobody is affected before then?
Klladdy wrote: shroudb wrote: Klladdy wrote: Yes, Quick Alchemy only lasts a round or two depending upon feat selection. I was just pointing out that Quick Alchemy explicitly removes the monetary costs whereas Advance Alchemy does not explicitly do so.
I wanted to clarify because mutagens, for example, do not qualify for Quick Alchemy thus making a mutagen alchemist potentially very non-renewable resource expensive relative to alternatives.
Compare black lotus to an 9th, 10th level spell. Because that's what alchemist gets.
Basically, someone can print the alchemical fire cost as 1 billion go cost, that doesn't make it Worth that much in actual usage though.
In effect, most low level alchemical items need their cost reduced to 1/10th of what they are now (like 3sp per vial) if they are supposed to substitute for what every other class does atm at will.
Or, better yet, give 0 RP "lesser items" at will for the alchemist (like cantrips)
As for the original question, considering that Advanced Alchemy says that they ignore reagents, I take it that it is free. Class would be literally unplayable if not, it's already borderline useless after lvl 7 or so.
Replacing spellist with purely mundane items that for some reason still cost magic essence to activate wasn't balanced well (still, that's what a playtest is for)
That was my take as well. I wanted to make sure that I had that right. On a related note, does Quick Alchemy even work for most poisons because the action cost to apply the poison and then deliver it? Does the 1 round aspect also make an applied contact poison inert after 1 round if nobody is affected before then? I think that is the intent here. It says "Any Requirements" of alchemical reagents. that would include the cost of them.
Klladdy wrote:
That was my take as well. I wanted to make sure that I had that right. On a related note, does Quick Alchemy even work for most poisons because the action cost to apply the poison and then deliver it? Does the 1 round aspect also make an applied contact poison inert after 1 round if nobody is affected before then?
Honestly this is a weird thing that needs clarification. ESPECIALLy because of "Powerful Alchemy" feat. That feat implies that any effects caused by the alchmical item persist. even if the item itself vanishes...
So RAI poison should disappear off the blade etc, but still be causing havok in the body.
Quick Alchemy/craft. The item disappears.. but does effects caused by the item disappear?
i.e.
the poison disappears but are you stil poisoned and still going through the stages.
Acid Flask.. does the persistent damage do nothing because the acid disappears before the enemy turn ever comes up?
Alchemist's flask.. the persistent damage disappears.... but does that mean i could set something aflame and the fire disappears imediaately after? it is still an effect of the item.. like the body's organ failures/immune response to poisons.
Smoke bombs/smoke sticks.. does the smomke in the air just vanish?
Elixer of some night vision or something?
Currently we can not use any of the Alchemist's abilities to make Mutagens.. but if we c ould
it would disappear before it ever actually goes into effect from onset. Or with the quick onset.. it might go into effect but then still vanish.
Currently, by RAW.. they all vanish. so any effect they had on going would vanish
Zwordsman wrote: Klladdy wrote:
That was my take as well. I wanted to make sure that I had that right. On a related note, does Quick Alchemy even work for most poisons because the action cost to apply the poison and then deliver it? Does the 1 round aspect also make an applied contact poison inert after 1 round if nobody is affected before then?
Honestly this is a weird thing that needs clarification. ESPECIALLy because of "Powerful Alchemy" feat. That feat implies that any effects caused by the alchmical item persist. even if the item itself vanishes...
So RAI poison should disappear off the blade etc, but still be causing havok in the body.
Quick Alchemy/craft. The item disappears.. but does effects caused by the item disappear?
i.e.
the poison disappears but are you stil poisoned and still going through the stages.
Acid Flask.. does the persistent damage do nothing because the acid disappears before the enemy turn ever comes up?
Alchemist's flask.. the persistent damage disappears.... but does that mean i could set something aflame and the fire disappears imediaately after? it is still an effect of the item.. like the body's organ failures/immune response to poisons.
Smoke bombs/smoke sticks.. does the smomke in the air just vanish?
Elixer of some night vision or something?
Currently we can not use any of the Alchemist's abilities to make Mutagens.. but if we c ould
it would disappear before it ever actually goes into effect from onset. Or with the quick onset.. it might go into effect but then still vanish.
Currently, by RAW.. they all vanish. so any effect they had on going would vanish
nah, RAW is breaking apart thematic language to make it purely rules.
so, a "poison that deals 4 persistent damage" in RAW is translated "item A causes effect B"
if item A has a duration of 1minute, it has nothing to do with effect B because they are 2 different, distinct, things.
Yet another thing that needs clarification way too early in the process. I made my first two alchemists (making a character of each race in each class, , , it's, a process) thinking they had to spend money on items at the start of the day, which made no sense at all. Another friend agreed that "regents" had to reference money as well.
C'mon Paizo. This lack of clarity should've never even reached the public.
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