Higher attack bonus - how?


Advice


We play a campaing where we don't really follow all the normal rules, and since my character is one of the newest his attack bonus is not good enough for what we meet. He's got between 19-22, but we meet stuff with AC 50, so unless crit, no chance.

And I need tips for what I can do to get a better attack bonus :)

We get a buttload of feats and I've focused on mostly knowledge so are there any feats that make the AB get higher? We have also so many that D&D 3.5 feats are allowed to use if anyone know about someone in those.

I play a lvl 7 feykin investigator. Str 12 - dex 32 - con 23 - int 28 - wis 14 - cha 15


if your running into AC's over 35 at lvl 7, some thing is seriously wrong! I can see a boss mob in the 26-35 range, but 50 seems more like late teens to epic.


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So, the average AC of a CR 7 monster is 20. But you're facing off against creatures with more than twice that amount, and I can see from your stats that you are in a very high-powered campaign.

With the addition of 3.5 feats, and your first sentence, I have no idea what goes and what doesn’t.

Even if I had unlimited feats, I wouldn't be able to push that 19-22 AB to 40 with normal pathfinder rules. Which means you are playing a wildly different game. I'd ask your fellow players or GM for help.

****

Alternatively, you could buy a pair of Deliquescent Gloves and make a Feint-Aoo build. Then you'd target Touch AC while they're denied their Dexterity modifier (and dodge bonuses), lowering their AC to at least below 20 in most cases.
This would only deal 1d6+Swift Strike acid dmg, though.

Shadow Lodge

AnnChristin86 wrote:

...and since my character is one of the newest his attack bonus is not good enough for what we meet. He's got between 19-22, but we meet stuff with AC 50, so unless crit, no chance.

...

I play a lvl 7 feykin investigator. Str 12 - dex 32 - con 23 - int 28 - wis 14 - cha 15

You say you are one of the 'newer' characters, so if you are level 7, are the other characters higher leveled?

Your stats are incredibly high: Last time I saw stats like that, it was a one-shot game using a rolling method (from 1st edition Unearthed Arcana I think) where you rolled 9d6 for your first stat, 8d6 for your second, and so on (I still have the little notepad page with my 3.5D&D 29 Str 22 Dex 26 Wis level 6 monk).

If you want to hit AC 50 in the 'high single digit' levels, there's not a lot you can typically do: Anything submitted to the publisher that would increase your attack roll that much would have been summarily (and accurately) rejected as being ridiculously overpowered.

If you really want to hit at least a couple of times, maybe a combination of:

The basic idea is to Quick Draw the Medlance (Free Action), use it to consume the extract (Move Action), leaving you with a Standard Action for a single attack with a +20 bonus: It's not a particularly good option (you can only have so many extracts, burns your move action each round, requires your GM to allow Medlances to be aquired, deliver an extract, and be quick drawable) but it might get you through a fight or two each day.


If you're not a Frenzied Berserker wearing a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard (divination) throwing it all into a one-shot True Strike charge while Invisible, I don't see how in heck you're hitting 50 at 7th-level without rolling back-to-back 20s. (And I assume the target has considerably more than thirty-odd hitpoints, meaning you'll need more than one attack to bring it down.)

-- Accept the possibility that your GM is running his game in a Rappan Athuk-style atmosphere; i.e., you can't just murder-hobo everything in sight in his world, and you're as likely to run into 1st-level commoner ruffians as ancient dragons while on the road, and sometimes you're only option is to run like hell.


Ok, Ann, can you tell us how many feats you get, how much gold you have, and what your current magical equipment is? Please explain any Homebrew items for us.


Hard to impossible to answer without knowing :
1/ what feats you alreafy have - WFinesse is a given, probably WFocus, but anything else ?
Not much else feats-wise anyway, mind you.
2/ at least a hint of whatever crazy house-rules you're using. None of this looks even remotely standard, so we'd need to know what we're dealing with. That probably makes it a homebrew thread though.

But the obvious ones are : do you have the money to pimp your weapon full of pluses ?
Magic/extracts ? Mutagen ?
A solution does not have to be permanent : you have a good class with nice features and pseudo-spellcasting.

Also, can't the other players give you hints ? They seem to have what they need, afterall.


If at all possible you want to bring that AC down - targeting touch AC isn't common, but guns and wands may help - or flat-footed/denied dex to AC via any of the means that rogues use. Turning invisible, flanking, feat chains like circling mongoose or feinting or false opening or press to the wall, blinding the enemy by dirty tricks or spells. This is not a comprehensive list.


Brilliant Energy Weapon

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abi lities/brilliant-energy

“A brilliant energy weapon has its significant portion transformed into light, although this does not modify the item’s weight. It always gives off light as a torch (20-foot radius). A brilliant energy weapon ignores nonliving matter. Armor and shield bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. (Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply.) A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, or objects.”

Go invisible to make the enemy flat footed. So they can’t use Dex or Dodge.

Their AC is now 10+deflection+natural armor

You can now hit almost anything


Also... inflict conditions. Lots of conditions. Blindness, Entangled, Shaken or Sickened... anything that reduces your opponent's AC considerably. Investigators are a Skill role type PC, so your damage is never going to be amazing, but as a Feykin with presumably a high Dex I'm sure you can deliver pretty accurate ranged attacks or using a finesseable weapon. Surround your foe with a Nauseating Trail Formulae, causing the Nauseated condition, and then come back the next round to hit them while they're down.

That being said I agree with other posters; inflicting conditions probably would work against CR 7 monsters following the Core rules but with the numbers you're talking about you likely need something a lot stronger. My suggestion would be to petition your GM for a Fabulous Soul Sucking Rapier +10 of Everything, which might be more in line with a game where CR 7 monsters have a 50 + AC.


Wonderstell wrote:

Even if I had unlimited feats, I wouldn't be able to push that 19-22 AB to 40 with normal pathfinder rules. Which means you are playing a wildly different game. I'd ask your fellow players or GM for help.

****

Alternatively, you could buy a pair of Deliquescent Gloves and make a Feint-Aoo build. Then you'd target Touch AC while they're denied their Dexterity modifier (and dodge bonuses), lowering their AC to at least below 20 in most cases.
This would only deal 1d6+Swift Strike acid dmg, though.

Yeah, I asked fellow players for help, they have no clue either. The DM gave me "special" mode but that's the one that gives me +22 to hit, so I doesnt really help anything else than on speed, and the attacks of course, IF I hit.

And acid damage is fine, my fellow players normally kill these things in a round or two, so anydamage is fine.

Taja the Barbarian wrote:

You say you are one of the 'newer' characters, so if you are level 7, are the other characters higher leveled?

Your stats are incredibly high: Last time I saw stats like that, it was a one-shot game using a rolling method (from 1st edition Unearthed Arcana I think) where you rolled 9d6 for your first stat, 8d6 for your second, and so on (I still have the little notepad page with my 3.5D&D 29 Str 22 Dex 26 Wis level 6 monk).

If you want to hit AC 50 in the 'high single digit' levels, there's not a lot you can typically do: Anything submitted to the publisher that would increase your attack roll that much would have been summarily (and accurately) rejected as being ridiculously overpowered.

We are all the same lvl. We apperantly lvl'd up last time (it's not easy keeping track when you have a couple of houndred thousand XP....). We've had a few fights were we have gotten stats instead of XP and such so it's quite a confusing campaign XP wise.

Anything not official then? :D My char is based on knowledge and I got skill focus ALL! (yepp), but we seldom use any other skills than perception. And I can't trade my feats or skill points into AB as that would have been and idea.

ShroudedInLight wrote:
Ok, Ann, can you tell us how many feats you get, how much gold you have, and what your current magical equipment is? Please explain any Homebrew items for us.

As off now I have 94 feats... I think I have 100 left... So yeah, we just stoped leveling unless we do something extraordinary and feat just keeps on comming... I got a buttload of gold. 120.000 in bank, 20.000 on me, and I got a lump of gold worth 700.000 somewhere that we stole from a dragon, so gold is no problem.

And as to magical equipment:
+2 Nimble darkleaf leather armour
Amulet of might fist +2 natural armour
Headband of Vast Intelect +6
Incredible Dexterity +4 belt

Nyerkh wrote:

Hard to impossible to answer without knowing :

1/ what feats you alreafy have - WFinesse is a given, probably WFocus, but anything else ?
Not much else feats-wise anyway, mind you.
2/ at least a hint of whatever crazy house-rules you're using. None of this looks even remotely standard, so we'd need to know what we're dealing with. That probably makes it a homebrew thread though.

But the obvious ones are : do you have the money to pimp your weapon full of pluses ?
Magic/extracts ? Mutagen ?
A solution does not have to be permanent : you have a good class with nice features and pseudo-spellcasting.

Also, can't the other players give you hints ? They seem to have what they need, afterall.

On the feat side I got these:

Deadly agility
Armour focus
Dodge
Improved init.
Martial focus (natural)
Mobility
Spring attack
W finesse
W focus

For the homebrew rules, it was as epic 6, but suddenly we started leveling again. As I'm told. But three of them have played for years and I guess the GM playes hard because of them.

All my attacks are natural. I got a dragon bloodline that gives my some attacks with poison. The only weapon I have is a sap :p

I only got the extracts that I can make myself. Have not bought anything else of extracts or mutagens.

The other players hit mainly because:
One got an armour who is a combination of alive and magical with extra stats from the GM.
One is a rouge who uses faint and that whole line.
One hit's stuff only if he rages.
One is a arcanist and just burns the whole area and there don't roll to hit.

I hope I answered most of the questions now. But to sum it up. Epic lvl 6 transformed to not epic lvl 6 anymore, but all the rules followes. GM have som special stuff, but all I got is a dragon bloodline which gives me awesome attacks that don't hit, and a magical pen!


Wait, 100 feats? Getting ability bonuses instead of XP? That amount of gold? At level 7?

I honestly don't know how much we can help given your game is so far outside of normal as to be completely alien from what we usually consider normal play.

Definitely ask your fellow players and even the GM for help.


Oh wow. Hundreds of feats?

All the damn feats you need:
Extra Investigator Talent (Amazing Inspiration, Quick Study, and whatever else you want)
Extra Inspiration x30 (maybe more, is +90 points enough?)

****

Iron Will
Familiar Bond
Improved Familiar Bond
Evolved Familiar (Reach Evolution)

Familiar
Take the Valet familiar Archetype so that you share your teamwork feats with it. If it's tiny sized, you'll need the Reach evolution. If it's small sized, it's still good to have.

****

Nature Soul
Animal Ally
Boon Companion
Additional Traits (Clever Wordplay, Intelligence for Handle Animal)

Animal Companion
Preferably something you (and your familiar) can ride. Take Undersized mount if you want a smaller mount.

****

Combat Expertise
Gang Up
Outflank
Precise Strike

Combat Reflexes
Paired Opportunist
Disarm Partner
Improved Disarm Partner

Two-Weapon Fighting
Two-Weapon Defense
Weapon Trick: Two-Weapon Tricks: Arm Bind

Inspired Strike

****

So, these feats should be enough. You'll make disarm attempts with all your natural attacks, while aiming to fail them. Weapon Trick allows you to make disarm attempts even when they aren't carrying/wielding anything in their hands.
When you fail these attempts, your familiar will be granted AoO's. Since you'll have Paired Opportunist this means that you will get an AoO for every attack you make.

With Outflank and Paired Opportunist, these attacks are made with a +8 bonus. (+10 with the Menacing weapon special ability)

You'll use these AoO's to make attacks with a touch weapon. Either Deliquescent Gloves or Firework (flame fountain).

Buy a Menacing Amulet of Might fists for your familiar.
And get the Inspired weapon special ability on your Amulet of Mighty Fists before level 9.

****

So if you attack a studied target, your touch attack will deal:

1d6 (Gloves) + 3 (Studied) + 1d6 (Precise Strike) + 1d8 (Inspired Strike, costs 1 inspiration) damage.

So 2d6+3 Acid Dmg normally, or
2d6+1d8+3 if you blow 1 inspiration point on the attack.

At level 9, when you can take the Combat Inspiration talent, the other benefit of the Inspired weapon ability triggers. Then your damage would be:

2d6+4 Acid Dmg normally, or
2d6+3d8+4 dmg if you blow 2 inspiration points on the attack.

****

Your Attack bonus should then be +32, while targeting their Touch AC. They'll basically only get their deflection, dexterity and dodge bonuses. +32 should be plenty enough for that.

****

At level 8, take the Harrying Partners feat, and equip your familiar with a Benevolent weapon. Then it can grant you up to +7 to all your attack rolls if you upgrade its weapon. Which would place your roll close enough to 50 to actually consider attacking normally.

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