Confused about two weapon fighting barbarian

[Cyggystardust]

Hey yall im totally lost on this whole two weapon fighting stuff for the record my main character is a support cleric and im getting totally lost with my planning.

At 6th level, a titan mauler barbarian4 /weapon master fighter2 BAB is 6/1 which i took to mean two attacks in a full round at the specified bonuses.

Two weapon fighting incurs additional penalties while full round fighting with two weapons, per the chart. So.. if i understand it right just the two attacks would then bd..

0/-1 on full round?

So if i have a 20 strength(mod 5)
Becomes 5/4 then.. i get completely lost from here..

Since i have improved two weapon fighting, a natural attack bite plus the off hand i think its 5 attacks in a full round but then i loss track of all the penalties.. what stacks what doesnt?
Do magical items enhancements only apply to the weapon attacking? EX 2 +1 greatswords is not a +2 enhancementto hit when attacking individually?

Sorry for all the questions..

[Wonderstell]

Okay, I'll break down it down with a couple examples. Every example is made at BAB +7 and no other modifier.

*

A character with a longsword takes an attack action and makes a single attack with his longsword. This attack is made at +7.
The same character takes a full-attack action to make two attacks. The first is made at +7, and the second is made at +2.

The same character now wields a dagger in his other hand. She takes a full-attack action to make two attacks. She can choose whether to attack with only the dagger, sword, or both. In either case, she only makes two attacks at +7 and +2.

*

A character, who holds both a longsword and a dagger, and possesses the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, intends to take a full-attack action.
He can choose to make a normal full-attack, resulting in two attacks. He can also choose to gain one extra attack, by suffering the penalties for Two-Weapon Fighting.

Since he has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, and the off-hand weapon is a light weapon (the dagger), he only suffers a -2 penalty to his attacks with his main/off hand. He gains one extra attack, and his new attack routine is +5/+5/0.
However, he can not decide in which order to attack since he uses two-weapon fighting to gain an attack. The second attack at +5 is always made with his off-hand, and the rest of the attacks are made with his main hand.

Also, he'd only add half of his Strength modifier to the damage of his off-hand attack.

****

Same characters as above, but they do now both have a bite attack.

The female character, who doesn't attempt to gain an extra attack with two-weapon fighting, takes a full-attack action. She makes two attacks with her longsword at +7 and +2, while also making a bite attack.
This bite attack is normally a primary natural attack, and would be made at +7. However, since she's attacking with her manufactured weapons the bite attack is downgraded to a secondary attack. This means it has a -5 penalty and that she only adds half of her Strength modifier to the damage.
Her attack routine is +7/+2/+2(b), where the (b) stands for bite.

*

The male character, who gains an extra attack with two-weapon fighting, takes a full-attack action. He makes two attacks with his longsword at +5/0, one attack with his dagger at +5, and one bite attack at +2.
His attack routine is +5/+5/+2(b)/0.

This is because only the main and off-hand weapons are affected by the two-weapon fighting penalties. Any other attacks you make does not suffer from a -2 penalty.

****

If the male character had Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, you'd simply add another off-hand attack made with a -5 penalty.
This second extra attack would also suffer the two-weapon fighting penalties, which would give him five attacks with a routine of:
+5/+5/+2(b)/0/0

*

Cyggystardust wrote:

Do magical items enhancements only apply to the weapon attacking? EX 2 +1 greatswords is not a +2 enhancementto hit when attacking individually?

If you had a +5 longsword and attacked with a +1 dagger, you'd only apply the +1 bonus. They don't stack, and that's one of the main problems with Two-Weapon Fighting.

Also, you can't two-weapon fight with a greatsword as it is a two-handed weapon. A character with a greatsword and a bite attack would have an attack routine of +7/+2/+2(b).

[Cyggystardust]

Wonderstell wrote:

Okay, I'll break down it down with a couple examples. Every example is made at BAB +7 and no other modifier.

*

A character with a longsword takes an attack action and makes a single attack with his longsword. This attack is made at +7.
The same character takes a full-attack action to make two attacks. The first is made at +7, and the second is made at +2.

The same character now wields a dagger in his other hand. She takes a full-attack action to make two attacks. She can choose whether to attack with only the dagger, sword, or both. In either case, she only makes two attacks at +7 and +2.

*

A character, who holds both a longsword and a dagger, and possesses the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, intends to take a full-attack action.
He can choose to make a normal full-attack, resulting in two attacks. He can also choose to gain one extra attack, by suffering the penalties for Two-Weapon Fighting.

Since he has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, and the off-hand weapon is a light weapon (the dagger), he only suffers a -2 penalty to his attacks with his main/off hand. He gains one extra attack, and his new attack routine is +5/+5/0.
However, he can not decide in which order to attack since he uses two-weapon fighting to gain an attack. The second attack at +5 is always made with his off-hand, and the rest of the attacks are made with his main hand.

Also, he'd only add half of his Strength modifier to the damage of his off-hand attack.

****

Same characters as above, but they do now both have a bite attack.

The female character, who doesn't attempt to gain an extra attack with two-weapon fighting, takes a full-attack action. She makes two attacks with her longsword at +7 and +2, while also making a bite attack.
This bite attack is normally a primary natural attack, and would be made at +7. However, since she's attacking with her manufactured weapons the bite attack is downgraded to a secondary attack. This means it has a -5 penalty and that she only adds half of her Strength modifier to...

Thanks mate think i understand, and i can two weapon fight with greatswords due to the archetype titan mauler, jotun grip ability. But that helped a lot.

So if say both weapons are +3 same sword its just a flat +3 when fighting using either correct?

[Wonderstell]

Cyggystardust wrote:

So if say both weapons are +3 same sword its just a flat +3 when fighting using either correct?

Yup.

[Gilfalas]

Cyggystardust wrote:

...and i can two weapon fight with greatswords due to the archetype titan mauler, jotun grip ability. But that helped a lot.

You do realize that doing that is going to make all your greatsword attacks at a -6 penalty?

Titan Mauler allows you to use a two handed weapon one handed (and treat it as a one handed weapon) at -2.

Using 2 one handed weapon with 2 weapon fighting gives the first and second hands a -4 to hit penalty. Combined with the titan Mauler penalty that is a -6 on all attacks with your greatsword before anything else.

So for your 6th level character with a 20 Str and +3 Greatswords and a bite attack your 2 weapon fighting attack routine would be:

+8/+3 First hand +3 Greatsword attacks
+8/+3 Second hand +3 Greatsword attacks
+6 Bite attack

BAB: +6
Str: +5
Greatswords: +3
2 Weapon Fighting with 2 one handed weapons: -4
Jotungrip using a 2 handed weapon in one hand: -2

Also remember that since they are treated as one handed weapons due to Jotungrip you only get the one handed weapon bonus from power attack if your using that. Of course if your using power attack you would have another additional -2 to hit at 6 BAB.

You sure you want to do that? No one wants to take a -6 or -8 to hit at any level but especially at low level.

[Kiesman]

Wonderstell wrote:

*

A character with a longsword takes an attack action and makes a single attack with his longsword. This attack is made at +7.
The same character takes a full-attack action to make two attacks. The first is made at +7, and the second is made at +2.

The same character now wields a dagger in his other hand. She takes a full-attack action to make two attacks. She can choose whether to attack with only the dagger, sword, or both. In either case, she only makes two attacks at +7 and +2.

*

A character, who holds both a longsword and a dagger, and possesses the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, intends to take a full-attack action.
He can choose to make a normal full-attack, resulting in two attacks. He can also choose to gain one extra attack, by suffering the penalties for Two-Weapon Fighting.

Since he has the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, and the off-hand weapon is a light weapon (the dagger), he only suffers a -2 penalty to his attacks with his main/off hand. He gains one extra attack, and his new attack routine is +5/+5/0.
However, he can not decide in which order to attack since he uses two-weapon fighting to gain an attack. The second attack at +5 is always made with his off-hand, and the rest of the attacks are made with his main hand.

Also, he'd only add half of his Strength modifier to the damage of his off-hand attack.

I gotta say, you broke this down perfectly and in an easy-to-read way. I might actually play a two-weapon fighting character for once now!