I keep hearing about how lethal the diseases are in the first Dead Suns module, and how nasty diseases in Starfinder are in general.
What's the big deal exactly? Our group made it through the first module just fine. Those space dog things did a lot of damage to our melee fighters, and even a little bit to me, the sniper in the back row, and we're just fine. Why are other groups having such a hard time?
I keep hearing about how terrifying it was for other groups and I'm left to wonder if our GM may have ran it wrong. I'd provide more details, but the actual game was months ago and I don't remember much more than making our saves after the attacks and the GM telling us that we succeeded.
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Some diseases start off pretty tame, but others hit you immediately. I believe the disease in AP 1 only had a DC of 9 or 10, but at 2nd level you might not even have a bonus in that save yet. That disease starts off a couple steps down the track, so you're immediately taking penalties to your attack rolls, which just compounds the issue because you're not killing the enemies faster. Plus, if you fail even one recovery save, you slide down the track again, but you need two saves in a row to recover one step.
And if you die while you have the disease,
My GM didn't read the disease correctly; he thought that that last bit about dying was the only effect... but I should have been taking like -3 to attacks, skills, and saves. That would have made the end boss nearly unkillable, since I was one of the big damage dealers.
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What Dracomicron said.
It's like this, once you fail a save, it becomes harder for you to succeed on the next one, so it can easily cascade out of control. With some diseases, fail once and you go down, but you won't go up unless you succeed twice. If you have a player or two get unlucky, it can completely shut down a game while they spend (literally) days resting and hoping for 2 or 4 or 6 successes in a row. Or, worse, if they press on could cause a TPK because the numbers are pretty tight and having two players with a penalty to hit/saves/skills drastically increases the risk for everyone.
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Diseases are harder to get rid off, since you must climb the track all the way up to healthy with saving throws, easily getting worst with a single missed roll. Poisons, on the other hand, once you save the minimum amount of times required, you are cured and just need to rest to get rid of the side effects.
One advantage of getting a disease over getting poisoned (what a weird thing to write) is that only poisons stack – if you get hit with 5 doses in a round and fail all saves, you're dead. But if five disease spreading creatures bite you, you only get sick once.
On the specific point of Void Death, don’t forget this clause: “failure means that the victim moves one step further along its progression track, gaining the effects of the next step and keeping all previous effects”; and also that “Unlike bonuses, penalties stack with each other and do not have types”.
So if you fail the DC 10 fortitude check, you immediately get sickened + fatigued, which amounts to:
-2 to ability checks
-3 to Str and Dex ability checks
-3 to attack rolls
-2 to weapon damage rolls
-3 to melee damage rolls
-2 to saving throws
-3 to Reflex
-2 to skill checks
-3 to Str and Dex based skill checks
-1 to AC
-1 to initiative
- Can’t run or charge
- Reduce you encumbered limit by 1 bulk*
*This one might get you encumbered, which gets you:
-2 to ability checks
-8 to Str and Dex ability checks
-3 to attack rolls
-2 to weapon damage rolls
-3 to melee damage rolls
-2 to saving throws
-3 to Reflex
-2 to skill checks
-8 to Str and Dex based skill checks
-1 to AC
-1 to initiative
- Can’t run or charge
- Speeds are reduced by 10 feet
- Maximum Dex bonus to AC is reduced to +2
That’s from a single bite.
And to get cured, you need to roll 4 successful Fortitude saving throws in the next 4 days. If you fail any of the two first ones, you go down the track and also gains Exhausted, and might get Nauseated for a whole minute anytime you do a standard or full action.
I keep hearing about how terrifying it was for other groups and I'm left to wonder if our GM may have ran it wrong. I'd provide more details, but the actual game was months ago and I don't remember much more than making our saves after the attacks and the GM telling us that we succeeded.
Well, your party made all the saves all the time? The akatas only have a bite attack, and all their attacks carry the disease. Until the character is contaminated, it's a saving throw per attack (and when they were close to dyeing, I made them full attack).
Or maybe the party had non-humanoid PCs? They are immune to VD.
As I recall, we had two humans (a soldier and operative), a morlamaw envoy, a shobhad soldier, and a skittermander mechanic.
As I recall, we had two humans (a soldier and operative), a morlamaw envoy, a shobhad soldier, and a skittermander mechanic.
That's a lot of firepower - maybe you killed them before they could spread the contagion.
We didn't see much trouble with the Void Death. My group has an operative who doubles as a medic and - by sheer happenstance - brought a number of medical aid items along.
Much like real life, it looks like if you quickly treat the disease chances for survival are good, but if you let it fester, they can get bad fast.
We didn't see much trouble with the Void Death. My group has an operative who doubles as a medic and - by sheer happenstance - brought a number of medical aid items along.
Much like real life, it looks like if you quickly treat the disease chances for survival are good, but if you let it fester, they can get bad fast.
Well, the thing about that particular disease is that it STARTS well down the track, so even if you get to it quickly with a medpatch, you still need to spend several days in recovery (and hope that you don't fail any more saves).
But then the very next encounter, a mold storm, put one of my players down. Dead. From a disease. It was more than a little disappointing to the players, methinks.
That should have taken at least a week, if the player managed to fail every single fortitude check.
That should have taken at least a week, if the player managed to fail every single fortitude check.Yeah, it took a while. If I'm remembering correctly, it was 3-ish weeks to heal the Lashunta, and once the player was infected by the mold storm they stopped progressing until he got better. He never did. A week and a half? Honestly, I can't remember the exact timeframe. There was a LOT of dice-rolling, with him rolling to save vs the disease, another player rolling Medicine to help the first with his saves, and another going out hunting/foraging with survival rolls for food and water. Keep in mind, my players didn't start the expedition with anywhere near three weeks worth of food or water, so they were into survival/forage mode already early into trying to heal the Lashunta, Ralkawi? Is that her name?
Anyway, had I been better prepared, or knew how deadly these diseases were, I would have completely skipped this one encounter, but they had just healed the Lashunta, which by rights they shouldn't have, and as I said previously I didn't play the Akata from book 1 right, so this was our first real experience with Starfinder diseases. After the lashunta, I thought the diseases were a pain, and time-consuming, but not terrible. Then before you know it, Player Kill.
I'm a little baffled that they thought that they could just take three weeks off the desperate chase to save the archaeologist from the cult. The entire point of that adventure is that you're on the clock.
And then, once they'd begun, I think they were loathe to say, "You know, she's getting better. But we're running late. Bye, lady. Have fun with the critters growing inside you." Then, by the time of the mold storm, they were already three weeks late, and said screw it.
Why did they stop there and wait for her to get better? Just improvise a gurney and drag her along, Treat Disease only takes 10 minutes - did they mistake it with long-term care, that actually takes a day or more?
You should have explained their options better.
And as I said before, now as a GM, I'm in a position of figuring out how to get them to the next stage without having any of the final fight happen, &c. But no worries, I'll work it out. I've been doing this DM'ing thing a long time. It'll probably have something to do with the Lashunta they saved. She'll tell them that Tahomen(??) talked to her once about an asteroid base, or something to that effect.
At this point they already lost the temple exploration, and since you didn't make Tahomen bump into them on their way back to civilization, you'll have to come up with a new gran finale for the book.
Instead of having that pointless NPC give up the main bad guy plot, I'd suggest having them meet Panelliar at the exploded temple ruins, now free from his compulsion to prevent the PCs from the entering the place.
There the cultists could've placed some trap that attracts the local fauna once living people approach the ruins. I'd have the adolescent mountain eel show up at the ruins, and 1d6 rounds later a full grown mountain eel (AA pg 78) joins its spawn to lunch the PCs.
Pannelliar can help them with a info dump about the temple, and give them the remains of the comm unit Tahomen used - it's beaten up, but some engineering and computers can get them the coordinates to the asteroid of AP03.
If this fails, someone in Ukulam administration might have picked up the transmission, since the continent is so closely guarded.
--//--
How many fortitude rolls did the NPC had to make? And were the players at least entertained by all of this?
I reasoned that this person was quite literally at death's door. IIRC she's one step above death on the disease track when they find her. I reasoned that moving her at that point would have affected her treatment negatively, regardless of RAW's 10 minutes for Treat Disease.
Did you inform them that she would get worst by being moved?
Because this house rule right here is the root of all evil that came to pass. If they dragged her behind them tied by a rope to the ankle while “tending” to her disease, the PCs would still have environmental protection from their armors when the mold storm hit (this is the first time I heard someone actually getting affected by this), and they would still catch Tahomen at the temple. And having to tend to a captured diseased cultists while doing all this could be quite entertaining – she seems more of a meek prisoner than Salask.
You actually made starfinder diseases even worst than they already are.
The players had quite a discussion of what to do with the situation. Hell, they had the discussion twice, because we ended one session just as they found her, and came back and started the following session just as they left it. Some players were in favor of leaving her. Some really wanted to help her. Those players won the argument. I, as the DM, let them make their own decision, and did not push them one way or the other. I find that players like not being told what to do. Moving her after that, when she started getting better? At what point would that be? She was up and down that disease track. Just when she looked like she'd be getting better, they'd fail a roll, and she'd get worse again.
Once they bought this route, it's tough to convince them otherwise. I'd probably have moved Event 5 to here – maybe her disease smell attracts more Ksariks – and tried my best to off her with the two monsters.
Or maybe even Salask came to see what the heck was keeping the party behind, and have her headshot the traitor from afar.
Thanks for the assumption that I didn't, though.
/sass
No NPC is pointless. Especially not if played right, and especially not this one. She's bound to become a henchman, and help flesh out the party. She's a keeper.
She's only there to reveal that the enemy is the Cult of the Devourer, one of the big bads of the setting, making the players take the mission even more seriously, and as an example of the ksarik spores (too soon after void death, IMO).
Did the players roll Culture to get information about the cult? I'd give them the half page on the CRB 496 for a DC 15, and the whole article in the adventure path, or a good portion of it, for a DC 25. Now try resting with someone from that group sleeping next to you. Damn maniacs.
I like that idea about the mountain eels. I might just use that.
They have a impressive size (fighting a large and a huge monster at once!), but not much other than a nasty bite. The stairs should make for some interesting place to run/fight, and if they are really suffering, Panelliar might help. Throw some mother and cub behavior during the battle, and it'll get even better.
No, the players were not in the least bit entertained.
Damn, sorry to hear that.
I'm hoping at least they'll use the NPC they got from it, so it doesn't feel to them like a complete waste.
I think you kinda own your players a Die Hard 3 ending.
The cultists came back to Turhalu point, but now that security was alert, there was a huge fight and only Tahomen, the master of disguises, got away. Once back in Asana, surprise, surprise, the police has nothing on him and can't even make an arrest – but they are keeping track of his whereabouts. Once the PCs arrive, the detective from the university spills the beans, and it's showtime: a frigging shootout at a Qabarat hotel (or other hideout), where Tahomen is meeting with the last members of his cell.
If they don't take her along, make the former diseased cultist show up at the battle, and modify her stats with this little feat: “In Harm’s Way”. Have her be killed by Tahomen while protecting one of the PCs. The End.
I will say that campaigns take a life of their own sometimes, and an act of mercy to heal and protect an NPC can have far-reaching consequences. At least one podcast has the PCs going to great lengths to save that NPC.
In my own Gamma World game, a random mind control mutation used on a 1st level goon caused a chain of events that led to that NPC being a sidekick throughout the campaign and a primary character in the next campaign (GW campaigns are short; the game maxes out at 10th level).
So I super respect anyone who puts through the effort of saving a character like that... but... if they're not PCs, you may want to, in the future, abstract the process of whether they live or die a bit.
And actually, I don't see it as that house rule being "the root of all evil that came to pass". Nor do I consider it a house rule. It's a ruling. DM's always have rulings, for all kinds of situations that RAW doesn't make any damned sense in.
Man, creating a rule that is not in the core rule book is the definition of a house rule!
The fact that they rolled so incredibly well is what derailed that part of the adventure.
Blaming the dice gods is one way to go, but...
Going by RAW, you should have said “You want to treat her disease? You can bring her along with you, just decide who's dragging her, if you make some contraption, take turns, etc”.
Instead you house ruled “If you move her, she'll get worse. If you want to treat her, you better set up camp and stay there and wait while she gets better”.
So, yeah.
I don't understand the insistence on placing blame for how this turned out. I posted to illustrate what occurred to my group, during actual play, and what my group in actual play observed regarding how deadly diseases are in Starfinder. It was supposed to be a helpful data point, and instead I find myself defending party decisions and my own DM rulings.
And my point is that your sample is contaminated – starfinder diseases are ghastly, but they do not require a party to stop adventuring because a character is sickened. This is not an accurate example of diseases in this system.
I would remind readers, again, this is not a novice group, nor am I a novice DM.
/soangry
This is just a discussion about disease rules, chill out man!
And the diseases in book 2 killed one of my Pcs.
Well, actually... never mind, no point arguing whose blame it is.
But I'm curious to see how you modify the rest of the book – you should post it on the GM reference topic when it's done.
A curious thing about the Ksarik disease (AA1 70):
CARRION SPORES
Type disease (injury); Save Fortitude DC 13
Track physical; Frequency 1/day
Effect When an infected creature reaches the comatose
state, 1d10+10 Diminutive ksarik seedlings burrow out
of its flesh and wriggle away. This ends the disease and
deals 1 piercing damage for each ksarik seedling.
Cure 2 consecutive saves
It's not actually a deadly disease – it only goes down to Comatose, when the seedlings burst. It stops short of Dead.
The NPC in question has been attacked with a thorn dart for 1d6+4 P damage and is Bedridden by the spores. Let's assume an average of 7,5 points of damage, with a starting 20 hit points, according to the cultist stat block.
Is shes gets 12 seedlings or less, she survives and is cured from the disease; if the PCs heal her up to 20, she survives if she gets 19 or less seedlings.
But, wait: she's been there for at least 5 days, going to the sixth: Latent > Weakened > Impaired > Debilitated > Bedridden > Comatose. Do NPCs benefit from the “Recovering Hit Points Naturally” rules? She has a Challenge Rating instead of a character level after all. But if they do, she might be at full HP.
Instead, I find myself coming under attack for my DMing style and the decision-making process of my players, as evidenced by this right here:
And my point is that your sample is contaminatedSeriously, guy. If you want somebody to chill out, to not be defensive, perhaps try to not be offensive.
/safespace
I'm not attacking you man! Just pointing out how much a simple house rule can make a mess of an already dangerous system - and trying to make sure other GMs don't come across this topic and make similar decisions.
But okay, whatever, house rule away.
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the guys running DEAD SUNS on the ROLL FOR COMBAT podcast had a pretty interesting run-in with the Void Death
Our party was pretty lucky with fortitude rolls against the afflictions in book 1. To be a 100 % honest, i'm not entirely certain we rolled the checks correctly.
Our solarian was impacted in book 2, but we got him better as well.
You said my opinion was irrelevant
Nah, just that the particular situation your group suffered was due to a house rule, not because of the game. So it is not representative of "the lethality of Starfinder diseases", since no one else will go through it, if they play by RAW.
And that said house rule is a nasty one that should be avoided, since it led to a "not in the least bit" entertaining (and kinda unfair) experience.
/peace!
the guys running DEAD SUNS on the ROLL FOR COMBAT podcast had a pretty interesting run-in with the Void Death
** spoiler omitted **
I follow that podcast.
I think the GM either gave him some graft, or turned him into a
It doesn't seem to have affected him mechanically though, just in fluff.
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Dude, I was trying to be anecdotally helpful to a topic that I had personal experience in. You said my opinion was irrelevant ("contaminated" was the exact wording, but same thing contextually). How is that not an attack?
I'm not Ragi, but I think you may be reading something into his statement that isn't there.
He's stating a fact, here, you didn't run the game as it was designed and that made a bad situation (diseases are deadlier in this game) worse. But that doesn't mean they're supposed to be as deadly as they ended up being for your group. Had you not changed the rules to make it harder on your players, it would have greatly improved your group's survival chances.
He's not saying changing the rules was wrong. Nor, I suspect, is he implying that you're, in any way, a bad DM for changing them (even in the way you changed them), nor that your change doesn't make 'sense'.
He's saying that that change, in particular, is one that fundamentally alters the way those rules work, and in this case altered them in a way that took something that would (under a RAW application of the disease rules) have been difficult and turned it into something nigh impossible.
That, I think is the "contamination". Your story is not a reflection of the system, as is. It's a reflection of the system as you ran it with that ruling, and those two things are different.
I think that's an accurate assessment. I mean, I might have made the same call in your shoes, if I weren't aware of how bad that could turn out.
I follow that podcast.
I think the GM either gave him some graft, or turned him into a ** spoiler omitted **
It doesn't seem to have affected him mechanically though, just in fluff.
I asked that exact question of that DM and was told...
I asked that exact question of that DM and was told...
** spoiler omitted **
Yeah, the timeline from when they played and when that book was released don't even match, I believe.
Specially since they record in bulk and release in parts.
I asked that exact question of that DM and was told...
** spoiler omitted **
Yeah, the timeline from when they played and when that book was released don't even match, I believe.
Specially since they record in bulk and release in parts.
I binged the entire series and
I've also heard them referencing the Elebrian splat from the AP and am not sure they realize that those are living Eoxians, not corpsefolk.
But yeah, their Envoy definitely died from Void Death and probably should've become a void zombie.
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I binged the entire series and ** spoiler omitted **
The GM was really conflicted due to the harshness of diseases in the system, and tossed them quite a lot of softballs. The lack of a healer in the party also complicated things.
In my game one of the characters actually went down to bedridden, she was failing every single roll. Since she was a skittermander icon that works for the Veskarium, she managed to get a vesk mystic connected to the vesk embassy (I assumed there's such a thing at the Vesk Quarters) to fly nearby the quarantine zone and meet them for some remove afflictions attempts.
I charged by the Professional Services table, and the NPC actually failed the first time (I let her roll for it - hilarious).
She lost all her noqual quota getting cured, and IIRC, ended up owing money to another player.
Letting the disease run its course would've been more entertaining, but she really likes that skittermander.
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the guys running DEAD SUNS on the ROLL FOR COMBAT podcast had a pretty interesting run-in with the Void Death
** spoiler omitted **
I follow that podcast.
I think the GM either gave him some graft, or turned him into a ** spoiler omitted **
It doesn't seem to have affected him mechanically though, just in fluff.
it was before the release of Pact Worlds, so you might be correct.
that being said, i thought it was a fun way to run it.
I find that using CON only (rather than Fortitude Save) to resist Disease and Poison makes them both far more realistic/effective/deadly
Aren't they bad enough already?
From a mechanical point of view, I think this is nuts; from a fluff point of view, the difference between them is very weak:
"Constitution (Con)
Constitution represents your character’s health."
"Fortitude
Fortitude saving throws measure your ability to stand up to
physical punishment or attacks against your vitality and health."
Doesn't make a lot of sense why Fortitude is better than your Constitution modifier - it's just one of those things.
But I believe you are going out of your way to unnecessarily punish your players. Dying from disease or poison already sucks; dying from them because of a house rule is infuriating.
Because the moldstorm happens on the 7th day of travel, according to the book. Also, on page 15, it states that 12 hours of every day the players have to use their environmental protection to protect against the crazy jungle heat.None of my players had 4th-level armor, which is what would have been necessary to still have protection on day 7. 3rd-level armor runs dry at the end of day 6. So even in a best-case scenario, where my players had decided to not help the lashunta, they still would not have had environmental protection when the moldstorm hit.
From both of the podcasts I've listened to that have gone through that section,
When the moldstorm hit, they all still had some charge left on their environmentals.
That's the challenge there; is having air conditioning every day worth it if you don't have anything left when the chips are down later? The damage you take from hourly heat is nonlethal, if I recall; it won't kill you... but the moldstorm might.
I'm not saying that you all did anything wrong; it's just a brutal adventure. You'd think that the first AP for Starfinder would throw some softballs, but it really doesn't. Those podcasts I referenced have players that are experienced veterans with a lot of meta knowledge of how these things work, so one can't expect players with less genre savviness to think of the same sorts of things that they plan for.
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You'd think that the first AP for Starfinder would throw some softballs, but it really doesn't.
There are three easy strategies for this hazard (and the whole trip), from cheap to expensive:
CRB 231 - 50 credits, 1 bulk
Mobile Hotelier
Tents known as mobile hoteliers are advanced and include
systems that provide their occupants the same environmental
protections as armor (see page 196) while active. A mobile
hotelier requires a 20-charge battery to provide this protection,
uses 1 charge every 8 hours, and is considered a technological
item for effects and abilities that target or disable technology.
Even if this protection is removed, the tent can still be used as
a mass-produced tent.
CRB 196 & 202 - level 1, 95 credits, light bulk (need at least 6 for the trip)
Flight suit stationwear
Unless otherwise specified, all armors protect
you from a range of hazards to ensure that you can survive for
at least a few days if you must make emergency repairs to the
hull of a starship, explore an alien world, or endure exposure
to an environmental breach in a space station.
[...]
The usual environmental protections of armor
are concealed in the design of these outfits.
CRB 224 & 363 - level 3, 300 credits, light bulk (need at least 4 for the trip)
Spell Ampoule: Life Bubble
A spell amp always has an item level equal to three times the
level of the spell it duplicates (treat as a 2nd-level item for spell
amps with 0-level spells), and a caster level equal to its item
level.
[...]
Duration 1 day/level
You surround the target creatures with a constant and movable
1-inch shell of tolerable living conditions customized for each
creature. This shell enables the targets to breathe freely in a
variety of atmospheric conditions (including in corrosive, thick,
thin, and toxic atmospheres), as well as underwater or in a
vacuum. It also makes the targets immune to harmful gases and
vapors, including inhaled diseases and poisons as well as spells
with a harmful gaseous effect.
If you have a Mystic or TM with the spell, they can also just cast the spell on up to 4 people every 4 days and not worry about the armor protection at all. It's actually a spell I would consider taking at 4th because of how useful it is for this sort of scenario.
If you have a Mystic or TM with the spell, they can also just cast the spell on up to 4 people every 4 days and not worry about the armor protection at all. It's actually a spell I would consider taking at 4th because of how useful it is for this sort of scenario.
I wonder if that works against the heat, too. It doesn't mention it specifically, but it does say that it provides "tolerable living conditions."
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I've been treating it like Endure Elements. It protects up to a point and I'm putting that same point at whatever the base protections on armor are. So you couldn't walk around on the sun with it, but anywhere your armor could normally go, you could.
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I wonder if that works against the heat, too. It doesn't mention it specifically, but it does say that it provides "tolerable living conditions."
I only quoted up to the part pertinent to the mold, but it actually is useful all around:
CRB 364
"In addition, the shell protects
targets (and their equipment) from extreme temperatures
(between –50° and 140° F) without having to attempt Fortitude
saving throws, as well as extreme pressures."
The adventure mentions only "temperatures rising to above 90° F shortly after dawn", so the spell covers it.
If you have a Mystic or TM with the spell, they can also just cast the spell on up to 4 people every 4 days and not worry about the armor protection at all. It's actually a spell I would consider taking at 4th because of how useful it is for this sort of scenario.
If there's a caster in the party there's also the option of purchasing spell gems with Life Bubble (level 2, 140 credits, light bulk), if the player does not wish the learn the spell.
But the CRB isn't very clear on caster levels concerning spell gems - is it the minimal level required to cast it? Item level equal to caster level, just as the spell amp? Caster level equal to the caster using it?
I'd rule item level = caster level, since it has so many other similarities with the spell amps. That would be 2 creatures for 2 days per gem, with a minimum of 6 gems for the initial journey.
More expensive than stockpiling flight suits, but cheaper than spell amps. If the other character benefited by it splits the costs, then it only loses to buying a mobile hotelier and traveling at night.
But the CRB isn't very clear on caster levels concerning spell gems - is it the minimal level required to cast it? Item level equal to caster level, just as the spell amp? Caster level equal to the caster using it?
The faq said that the DC is based on the caster so I'd imagine the caster level is based on the caster as well.
The faq said that the DC is based on the caster so I'd imagine the caster level is based on the caster as well.
I looked there for an answer and saw that too - it's the basis for my third option.
But that would make spell gems very useful concerning utility spells, and also DoT spells.
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If you have a Mystic or TM with the spell, they can also just cast the spell on up to 4 people every 4 days and not worry about the armor protection at all. It's actually a spell I would consider taking at 4th because of how useful it is for this sort of scenario.Careful, I had a DM nerf that spell down to only providing air after the third environmental/noxious gas thing it negated because "it wouldn't be in the adventure if you were meant to ignore it that easily"
I feel like the authors still haven't really gotten the hang of the environmental protections yet. In one adventure there's a mind-altering gas trap on an asteroid in the Diaspora that's described as having a thin but breathable atmosphere. But, like, it's an asteroid in the Diaspora, why would you trust that location to be safe for breathing and not have your protection up, especially if you didn't plan to be there long?
Careful, I had a DM nerf that spell down to only providing air after the third environmental/noxious gas thing it negated because "it wouldn't be in the adventure if you were meant to ignore it that easily"
That's mean. He had to sacrifice a known spell to learn that - it's quite a compromise.