Flying Blade (Precise Throw) TWF possible?

[Sir Dante]

As the title states, is it possible to use TWF as a Flying Blade (Swashbuckler) when using the precise throw deed?

Normally it states:
To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon
in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler.

Reason why I ask: Because throwing weapons has usually sucked pretty hard in normal PF compared to any other ranged attack options.

Would be extremely cool to make a character inspired by Jarlaxle's dagger throwing's.

Is it possible by straight rules without houseruling?

[Trekkie90909]

hm... Since you make an attack with a weapon in your other hand at some point during the round I would say no. Arguably you could say that each iterative attack is made without a weapon in the other hand, but you're still attacking with a weapon the other hand.

It would work if you can figure out how to combine it with flurry of blows since you can make all those attacks with a single hand.

[Sir Dante]

Trekkie90909 wrote:

hm... Since you make an attack with a weapon in your other hand at some point during the round I would say no. Arguably you could say that each iterative attack is made without a weapon in the other hand, but you're still attacking with a weapon the other hand.

It would work if you can figure out how to combine it with flurry of blows since you can make all those attacks with a single hand.

Can't the character throw with one hand? I know it's stretching it a bit.

But I guess it wouldn't be two weapon fighting then...

[KutuluKultist]

Trekkie90909 wrote:

It would work if you can figure out how to combine it with flurry of blows since you can make all those attacks with a single hand.

That is not very difficult. There are Monk and Close Group weapons which are light/one-handed and piercing. The temple sword would even open up slashing grace. So go dip a level of monk, grab slashing grace and get dex to damage with flurry and precise strike. Ouch.

[Trekkie90909]

Sir Dante wrote:

Trekkie90909 wrote:

hm... Since you make an attack with a weapon in your other hand at some point during the round I would say no. Arguably you could say that each iterative attack is made without a weapon in the other hand, but you're still attacking with a weapon the other hand.

It would work if you can figure out how to combine it with flurry of blows since you can make all those attacks with a single hand.

Can't the character throw with one hand? I know it's stretching it a bit.

But I guess it wouldn't be two weapon fighting then...

The problem is that the wording is "make an attack with your off hand," not "hold a weapon in your off hand while making an attack."

[trollbill]

Given the wording of two-weapon fighting, the action not the feat, you only get an extra attack if you are holding a second weapon in your off-hand. This means it only works if you have a weapon in each hand when you are making the extra attack.

[Dennis Baker]

You can use rapid shot. That doesn't open up the rest of the TWF chain, but does get you one extra attack.

[evilaustintom]

Dennis Baker wrote:

You can use rapid shot. That doesn't open up the rest of the TWF chain, but does get you one extra attack.

I'm afraid that won't work either - daggers and starknives are not ranged weapons. They are melee weapons that can be thrown (unlike other thrown weapons such as darts, javelins, or shuriken). Many of the feats like that (Rapid Shot, Far Shot, even Point Blank Shot) only work with ranged weapons. It, sadly, means thrown daggers lose out on that option...unless you have a DM willing to bend the rules.

[Zwordsman]

evilaustintom wrote:

Dennis Baker wrote:

You can use rapid shot. That doesn't open up the rest of the TWF chain, but does get you one extra attack.

I'm afraid that won't work either - daggers and starknives are not ranged weapons. They are melee weapons that can be thrown (unlike other thrown weapons such as darts, javelins, or shuriken). Many of the feats like that (Rapid Shot, Far Shot, even Point Blank Shot) only work with ranged weapons. It, sadly, means thrown daggers lose out on that option...unless you have a DM willing to bend the rules.

There was a big thread about this somewhere if you wanted to go to it

but long story short. Is that melee weapons with range increments are indeed melee weapons and ranged weapons. You can throw weapons that do not have a ranged increment-which in that case it is indeed not a ranged weapon. However the inclusion of a ranged increment (either because it's a weapon that has one, or because of the throwing enchantment) it counts as both ranged and melee and is valid for anything that effects those.
Ranged weapons are : Thrown weapons, and projectiles.

So you can use rapid shot but you could not use stuff like many arrows etc. Basically if something refers to a ranged weapon it's ok, if it specifies anything other it wont' apply.

TLDR: Arguements made in other thread. to sum up: If the weapon has a listed ranged increment, or the throwing enchantment it counts as a ranged weapon and melee weapon

[blackbloodtroll]

evilaustintom wrote:

Dennis Baker wrote:

You can use rapid shot. That doesn't open up the rest of the TWF chain, but does get you one extra attack.

I'm afraid that won't work either - daggers and starknives are not ranged weapons. They are melee weapons that can be thrown (unlike other thrown weapons such as darts, javelins, or shuriken). Many of the feats like that (Rapid Shot, Far Shot, even Point Blank Shot) only work with ranged weapons. It, sadly, means thrown daggers lose out on that option...unless you have a DM willing to bend the rules.

Thrown weapons, are Ranged weapons, regardless of whether they can be used as melee weapons or not.

The two categories are not "all or nothing".

Some fall into two categories.

You can have a Distance Dagger, or used Rapid Shot with Shortspears.

[lemeres]

KutuluKultist wrote:

Trekkie90909 wrote:

It would work if you can figure out how to combine it with flurry of blows since you can make all those attacks with a single hand.

That is not very difficult. There are Monk and Close Group weapons which are light/one-handed and piercing. The temple sword would even open up slashing grace. So go dip a level of monk, grab slashing grace and get dex to damage with flurry and precise strike. Ouch.

Unfortunately there are no monk/close throwing weapons that are worth it for the flying blade. Their panche class feature is altered to only work with daggers and star knives. The rest of the archetype does similar things. So your choices are limited unless you just go with vanilla swashbuckler.

Sohei can flurry with all throwing weapons once they get weapon training at level 6. So that means daggers are viable. And heck, they can even flurry in light armor. Combined with nimble and a good DEX, and they are rather tanky (particularly with monk levels to help round off saves)