Been reading through the mass of class decks I recently purchased, and I've got a small number of questions that I'd like answers to. Only 2 of them are significant, though, so I'll lead with them.
1. From the Barbarian Class Deck is "Improvised Monster":
For your combat check, recharge this card and banish a monster from your hand to use your Strength skill plus the discarded monster's highest difficulty to defeat.
[...]
Do you banish or discard the monster for the effect? Banish makes more sense to me, but the power is inconsistent. I saw a FAQ for a similar text issue on the Occult Adventures 1 deck (for a power on one of Estra's roles) but no FAQ for the Barbarian class deck, nor any reference on the forums to clarify that it should mean the "banished monster's highest difficulty", or whether the cost is the type.
2. For reference (emphasis added)...
Hate to ask, but is there clarification that Mother Myrtle's power can be used with Attack spells here? For reference, her relevant power:To be clear, does this intent also apply to powers which replace X with Y (as in, you require an X check, you have a power that replaces X with Y as opposed to the more common "use your Y skill" wording)?Assume the things I said apply to *all* powers that let you use one skill when the card you're attempting the check against specified another, be it a character power, a weapon, an Attack spell, an item like Mattock, whatever. The only exception we're looking at right now is Zelhara's power, "On your check that invokes the Chain, Finesse, or Knife trait, you may use Divine instead of the listed skill."
Are you taking suggestions for how to reword rules/powers or would that not be helpful?No need for that, but what would be helpful is if you can think of any such powers that (like Zelhara's) are not actually useful if they can't be combined with another [weapon, Attack spell, item like Mattock, whatever], or (again like Zelhara's) don't seem to belong in the Determine Which Skill You’re Using action.
You may use your Wisdom skill for your Arcane (□ or Divine) check.
So far, it has been confirmed by official sources on that forum thread that Zelhara's and Rivani's power, at absolute minimum, certainly DO allow for their powers to replace a skill already determined by a card. There's a very, very strong suggestion that Valeros' Weapon Master role also allows for that (if only because otherwise the whole power is moot).
However, Vic's specific words were that the rule that you can't replace a skill defined by another card or power should be assumed to apply to ALL powers, and I can't honestly say that Mother Myrtle's power is USELESS without it (she can still ACQUIRE spells fine, for example), but it certainly makes her effectively unable to fight. She'll have no weapons, d4 Strength and Dexterity, a bunch of spells and no Arcane or Divine skill to use a combat spell in. Admittedly, her deck DOES have offensive potions/items - is she 100% reliant on those?
I'd assume she could use combat spells, because I'd think that would be the point of her power. But the last official word I found on the topic (largely speaking, Vic from December 2017) explicitly says to assume that's not how it works until told otherwise. Currently, there's 1 character where this clear "only 1 card may determine your skill" rule seems to apply (Varril) and at least 3, possibly at least 4, characters where it doesn't apply (Zelhara, Rivani, probably Valeros, possibly Myrtle), so I'm trying to be very cautious with my power assessments right now. I really lack a cohesive understanding of the full consequences of these powers now that the whole Varril can of worms has opened up, given that none of them have been reworded yet (as far as I can tell), and as a result I'm veering away from playing any of them.
TL;DR: Could an official source answer whether or not Mother Myrtle can use her Wisdom skill for Arcane/Divine combat? Otherwise, could a veteran player answer that then I'll assume that's true until an official says otherwise (which seems to be the standard solution as far as I know)?
1. I’d go with Banish.
2. No. The wording is that you use your Wisdom skill. This means the power is activated during the Determine Which Skill You’re Using step. Only one such card or power may be used in that step; you can’t determine that you’re using Arcane for your Combat check and then also determine you’re using Wisdom for your Arcane check.
See also this thread. The RAW is unambiguous here, although if you want to houserule otherwise that seems sensible as well.
Improvised Monster is also in Goblins Fight, and I'm fairly sure it says banished both times there (but I'm not at home, so can't confirm).
It has the same words in Goblins Fight!
Improvised Monster is also in Goblins Fight, and I'm fairly sure it says banished both times there (but I'm not at home, so can't confirm).
I was also sure it said 'banish/banished' in Goblins Fight, but somehow it changed to 'banish/discarded' since the last time I looked at it.
EDIT: Improved wording to hopefully make my meaning clearer. No rogue Hawkbots yet.
No I meant "the same words" as in "Goblin Fight! has the same words as Barbarian."
2. No. The wording is that you use your Wisdom skill. This means the power is activated during the Determine Which Skill You’re Using step. Only one such card or power may be used in that step; you can’t determine that you’re using Arcane for your Combat check and then also determine you’re using Wisdom for your Arcane check.
See also this thread. The RAW is unambiguous here...
The RAW is not unambiguous here. (Not the least of which is indicated by the fact that in the August 2016 thread skizzerz points to, Vic tacitly endorsed the idea that Mother Myrtle *can* use her power to cast Arcane Attack spells.)
What we have at the moment is a proposed but not officially promulgated November 2017 rule from Vic, who explicitly states some previous powers will have to be reworded or exempted. In my mind this does not yet rise to the level of RAW.
Here is the proposed ruling (note how tentative the phrasing is):
Here's what we want: If the card you're making a check against requires an [X] check, and you use a power that lets you use the skill [Y] for it, the check gets both the X and Y traits.
Also, you always determine which skill you’re using during the Determine Which Skill You’re Using action, and the rule "You may play only 1 such card or use only 1 such power to determine which skill you’re using" needs to be followed (unless something specifically overrides it Golden Rule–style). We are definitely going to need to do an override for Zelhara, but I suspect we will not do it for Varril (meaning if Varill uses his power, he can't also use a weapon).
We want all of this to be consistent for all character powers, and we recognize that this may mean rewording some of them.
Later in the thread, steve496 points out that Mother Myrtle appears to fall on the Zelhara side of the dividing line, rather than the Varril side. So far, we have no official response to this.
I'd say it is currently as legitimate for Mother Myrtle players to use Arcane spells and items for Combat as for Mother Myrtle players to conclude they can't.
(For the record, elcordude's reading was what I came across through forum-digging, notably what Vic has and hasn't said about these types of powers; I was hoping that I'd missed something and could be enlightened as to a less ambiguous answer)
2. No. The wording is that you use your Wisdom skill. This means the power is activated during the Determine Which Skill You’re Using step. Only one such card or power may be used in that step; you can’t determine that you’re using Arcane for your Combat check and then also determine you’re using Wisdom for your Arcane check.
The reason why I didn't take this as gospel when I originally read it is that it appears to have already been overruled for Rivani and Zelhara, at minimum (and I strongly suspect Valeros will be), and I can't find an official source answering the Myrtle question, and a lot of ambiguous answers on the rest. I also noted that this rule is in the process of change (though it seems to have been for a while).
I'm more concerned about whether or not to consider her for my Organised Play characters than at home, hence why I'm not just houseruling one way or another. I recognize I can (and should) just bring it up with whomever is running an OP event and have a backup character ready if it ever comes up, but I am overwhelmingly reluctant to pick a character that may be significantly altered in function at an unknown date when and if the rule is clarified. For one thing, it might affect my choice of Ultimate Add-On deck significantly, and I don't believe you're allowed to switch those after starting an OP character.
Does this mean the Hawkmoon AI is glitching out? Or has it achieved True Sentience, and become capable of lying? WE'RE ALL DOOMED EITHER WAY!!
I had the exact same thought crossing my mind, some 10 time zones away :-)
2. No. The wording is that you use your Wisdom skill. This means the power is activated during the Determine Which Skill You’re Using step. Only one such card or power may be used in that step; you can’t determine that you’re using Arcane for your Combat check and then also determine you’re using Wisdom for your Arcane check.
See also this thread. The RAW is unambiguous here...
The RAW is not unambiguous here. (Not the least of which is indicated by the fact that in the August 2016 thread skizzerz points to, Vic tacitly endorsed the idea that Mother Myrtle *can* use her power to cast Arcane Attack spells.)
What we have at the moment is a proposed but not officially promulgated November 2017 rule from Vic, who explicitly states some previous powers will have to be reworded or exempted. In my mind this does not yet rise to the level of RAW.
Here is the proposed ruling (note how tentative the phrasing is):
...Here's what we want: If the card you're making a check against requires an [X] check, and you use a power that lets you use the skill [Y] for it, the check gets both the X and Y traits.
Also, you always determine which skill you’re using during the Determine Which Skill You’re Using action, and the rule "You may play only 1 such card or use only 1 such power to determine which skill you’re using" needs to be followed (unless something specifically overrides it Golden Rule–style). We are definitely going to need to do an override for Zelhara, but I suspect we will not do it for Varril (meaning if Varill uses his power, he can't also use a weapon).
We want all of this to be consistent for all character powers, and we recognize that this may mean rewording some of them.
Tentative rules aren’t RAW, and neither are implicit endorsements (I’ve seen Vic pop in to clarify some minor point but intentionally leave the main point unanswered because they didn’t have an answer for the main point yet). RAI and forum consensus both seem to be that Myrtle can use it (and indeed even in OP I’d let Myrtle use it for Combat as she is useless in combat otherwise), but RAW very clearly indicates the answer is no, because there have not yet been any official rulings indicating that Myrtle bypasses the only use one card/power to determine which skill you’re using rule. Thankfully, we aren’t machines and therefore aren’t slaves to RAW, so play it the sensible way at your table in the meantime ;)
I'd have to look at this more closely. What puzzles me is many of us (including you yourself, skizzerz, if I'm not misreading the cited threads) thought that before Vic's rulings Myrtle *could* use her skill when playing Attack spells.