Amnesiac and undercast spells

[Viondar]

Concerning the amnesiac and undercast spells, which are explained here

Do I understand correctly that when I use an amnesia slot to recollect a spell that can be undercast, I may immediately choose another spell for a lower level version I know?

And if I then forget that spell again the next day, does that change revert to what it used to be?

Please assist me here, because it's very foggy to my mind... (pun intended)

[willuwontu]

amnesiac wrote:

Spell Recollection (Ex): Once per hour as a swift action, an amnesiac can attempt to remember any spell from the psychic spell list of her choice from either of the 2 highest spell levels she can cast. When she does, she rolls on Table 2–1: Spell Recollection to determine the result. Because the mental stress of combat brings memories to the surface more easily, the amnesiac adds 1d10 to this roll’s result if she’s in combat when she attempts to recall a spell. Regardless of the result, the amnesiac expends an amnesia slot of the appropriate level for the spell she is attempting to remember; she must cast the spell remembered (if any) using that amnesia slot during the same round, or the spell slot is lost without effect. Once a spell has been remembered in this way, the amnesiac can cast it as one of her spells known for the rest of the day (even if she failed to cast the spell during the round in which she remembered it), unless spell recollection allowed her to cast a spell of a higher level than she would normally be able to cast.

recollection table wrote:

d% Result

1–10 The amnesiac is unable to cast spells this round.
11–35 The amnesiac can’t remember the new spell (but can still cast spells this round).
36–95 The amnesiac remembers and can cast the new spell.
96+ The amnesiac can choose to treat this result as 36–95. Alternatively, once per day, she can instead temporarily recall any spell from the psychic spell list that’s 1 level higher than the spell she’s attempting to remember. When she does, her caster level counts as the minimum caster level required to cast the higherlevel spell, and she forgets the spell after it’s cast.

No and no

[Viondar]

You're quick to answer, and quote some rules, but I cannot follow your line of reasoning to your conclusion of no.

I'll quote some, myself.

Quote:

Once a spell has been remembered in this way, the amnesiac can cast it as one of her spells known for the rest of the day

Quote:

Whenever a spontaneous spellcaster adds a spell to his list of spells known that can be undercast, he can immediately learn a spell in place of each lower-level version of that spell he knows. In essence, he loses each earlier version and can replace it with another spell of the same level that is on his spell list.

Seeing this, it would seem.

Yes
and
Ehh, whut?

Although I would be ok with 'no' (since it's easier) I currently see more yes than no. So please tell me how it's no...?

[bbangerter]

Looking at it I think the answer is no.

Quote:

...the amnesiac can cast it as one of her spells known for the rest of the day...

It allows her to cast the spell as if it were one of her known spells (for the rest of the day), but it does not actually become one of her known spells (being a temporary, for the day only, effect). And because it has not become a spell known it does not trigger the undercasting clause for spontaneous casters.

[Birseko Naam]

I would also say that it's a) depends and b) irrelevant.

Regarding the first question, the amnesiac has fewer spells known overall, and in exchange has a few slots that can be used for "knowing" spells on the fly, but with some variability in how accessible they are. Once you "remember" a spell, you clearly "know" it, since at the end of the day you can choose to keep the remembered spell and forget one of your other spells. However, I would not say that remembering, say, Mind Thrust IV in one of your amnesiac slots would let you immediately swap out lower level versions of Mind Thrust that you might also happen to know. On the other hand, if, at the end of the day, you decide to keep Mind Thrust IV as one of your spells known in your normal slots (thereby giving up some other spell), then it does seem like it would trigger the spontaneous caster and undercast spells rule that you quoted earlier. And your second question would be irrelevant since you would not be in danger of "forgetting" MT4 now that you had committed it to one of your non-amnesia slots.

However, I could see a situation where: a) On Monday you remember MT4 in an amnesia slot and at the end of the day, decide to keep it as a spell permanently known (giving up some other spell that your previously knew); having done that, you swap out lower level versions of MT that you already know, per the rule for spontaneous casters. Then, b) on Tuesday, you remember some other spell in an amnesia slot and at the end of the day, you decide to keep it instead of MT4. c) When you wake up on Wednesday, you know no versions of MT, either 4, or the lesser versions that you previously knew. Of course, if you really need it, you can try to remember it again in one of your amnesia slots.

Fun!

[Viondar]

Thanks Birseko, for grasping the weirdness of the situation :D

It would seem that the amnesiac is capable of swapping even lower level spells within a day or so, but only once. Unless they're swapped by another undercast spell.

Well, this kind of thing suits that archetype well, I suppose :D