Int-focused skill-based Investigator

[Kiesman]

Hi all! I was following the thread about getting as many skills off of one attribute as possible, Here, and I decided I wanted to build something like this for my local group. I decided to go with the Empiricist Investigator 3 build, and go with Inspired Blade Swashbuckler and the Elven Combat Style chain to get my Int to damage.

I've come up with two options for the build and need advice on what you guys think will be the best progression; Skills first or Combat first?

Skills first:

Half-Elf, Empiricist Investigator 8, Swashbuckler 1
Weapon Familiarity alternate racial trait

Class levels/feats
1-2. (Investigator) Skill Focus: Linguistics
3. (Investigator) Orator
4. (Swashbuckler) (b)Weapon Finesse, (b)Weapon Focus
5. (Investigator) Elven Battle Training
7. Elven Battle Style
9. Elven Battle Focus

OR

Combat first:

Half-Elf, Empiricist Investigator 8, Swashbuckler 1
Weapon Familiarity alternate racial trait

Class levels/feats
1. (Swashbuckler) Elven Battle Training,(b)Weapon Finesse, (b)Weapon Focus
2-3. (Investigator) Elven Battle Style
5. Elven Battle Focus
7. Skill Focus: Linguistics
9. Orator

I feel like waiting until 9 to get the rest of my skills to Int is gimping the whole build idea, but also waiting until at least 4 or 5 to be effective in combat will be detrimental in general. On the other hand, I get extracts until that point.

What do you think?

EDIT: I just realized that this is now the THIRD topic discussing a similar build, and I apologize for that. I probably should have just posted this in the original thread as a build idea.

[Gray Warden]

Hi, I participated to that thread, and I also started a similar one a while back. At the end I came to the conclusion, like you, that Elven Combat Focus is the way to go.

However, to get it you lose Skill Focus, which makes Orator way less appealing. I suggest you pick Student of Philosophy instead, and focus on combat, getting also Piranha Strike (with an effortless lace, or Power Attack if you have 13 Str) and Extra Investigator Talent when needed.

The loss of Int to intimidate is not a big deal, as you can easily make up for it with magic items (+2 competence, ioun stone), alchemicals (+4 alchemical, gravelly tonic) and class features (+1d6 inspiration when needed, or for free with Underworld Inspiration).

[Kiesman]

Thanks for the advice! That really does free up a lot of feat-time and make it easier to get the combat off the ground sooner. Am I right to assume that by the wording of Effortless Lace, I need to use a 1-handed piercing weapon to make use of my Swashbuckler's Finesse? Since the wording only specifies that it counts as "Light melee" not as "Light slashing melee".

MORE EDITS: Looking closer, Inspired Blade means I ONLY get the Weapon Finesse specifically with Rapier, so I have to use that anyway. No Effortless Lace use for me.

[Gray Warden]

Kiesman wrote:

Thanks for the advice! That really does free up a lot of feat-time and make it easier to get the combat off the ground sooner. Am I right to assume that by the wording of Effortless Lace, I need to use a 1-handed piercing weapon to make use of my Swashbuckler's Finesse? Since the wording only specifies that it counts as "Light melee" not as "Light slashing melee".

MORE EDITS: Looking closer, Inspired Blade means I ONLY get the Weapon Finesse specifically with Rapier, so I have to use that anyway. No Effortless Lace use for me.

Inspired Blade gives you Weapon Finesse with rapiers, which are still 1h piercing weapons. Effortless Lace applies to 1h piercing weapons, and makes them count as light (instead of 1h) for the purposes of feats and stuff. Piranha Strike applies to light weapons. A laced rapier counts as a light weapon for the purposes of Piranha Strike, so you can use it. Power Attack is still better as it allows you to add 1.5x the bonus to damage if you wield the rapier 2h (and you should use it 2h anyway, as you would add 1.5x Int too), and you wouldn't need the Effortless Lace.

[Kiesman]

Ohhhhhhh I see how it works. Neat! It will all end up depending on how we end up doing the attribute generation, but thanks for your assistance!

[Ferious Thune]

I would go Swashbuckler at 1st, because you'll still have skills as a Swashbuckler, but without Swashbuckler's Finesse you're going to be really bad at combat for 3 levels. You can deal with not having much of a bonus to damage at low levels, but not having a bonus to hit is really painful (or a small bonus if you go 13 STR).

I don't know what your point-buy looks like, but I don't see anything in the build that would let you ignore the 13 STR prerequisite for Power Attack. Also, while I might allow x1 1/2 Power Attack bonus two-handing a rapier, I don't think I would allow x 1 1/2 INT when INT is replacing STR, because of this line in rapier: "You can’t wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus to damage." I would definitely ask your GM before committing to that choice.

Student of Philosophy is definitely the way to go with this build, so I'm glad you're switching to that. Saves you two feats.