For example, an enlarged, keen nodachi of impact would do 3d8 with 15-20 crit range, x2
An enlarged butcher's axe of impact would do 6d6 with 20 crit range, x3.
How can you calculate avg dmg with these variables?
J
Well, average damage is just half the damage die plus .5.
So on average this nodachi would deal 3(4.5) damage or 13.5 damage. This is usually rounded down to 13 damage.
To factor in criticals (since you can threaten but still miss) I would find it easier to have the attack bonus. Then you can do expected value.
With the average AC of a monster at the level you are (some spreadsheets out there or in the monster creation table)
- Find the probability of the attack missing and multiply that by 0.
- Find the probability of you hitting without threatening a critical and multiply that by average damage.
- Find the probability of you threatening a critical but failing to confirm it and multiply that by the average damage
- Find the probability of you confirming a critical and multiply that by double the average damage.
If you add that all up you should get your expected damage which is a good value to have handy.
After struggling for posts for an hour, I decided to not embarrass myself with my rough guessimation maths.
So basically- the axe is probably better until you get extra damage (str/power attack) that is above 20 or so. After that, the nodachi might be better.
Falchion Fred the fighter is popular benchmark character for theorycrafters for a reason- high crit range tends to give better extra damage on average once you have some levels on you.
This is what a DPR calculation looks like:
a(d+s+b)+(a)(c)(m-1)(d+s)
a = to-hit chance, d = average weapon damage, s = static damage
b = bonus dice, c = crit chance, m = crit multiplier
+2 Nodachi +24/+16 (1d10+26/15-20/x2)
.95(31.5)+(.95)(.3)(31.5) = 38.9295
.65(31.5)+(.65)(.3)(31.5) = 26.6175
DPR = 65.547
On calculating the probability to hit:
As an example if you have an attack bonus of 20 vs an AC of 25 your attacks succeed on a 5 or better, and miss on a 4 or less.
So to calculate your chance to hit (represented as a decimal) you would do 1-((25 - 20 - 1)/20) = 0.8
(AC - To hit -1)/20 = your chance to miss, so subtracting that from 1 represents your chance to hit.
There's a calculator in one of the dpr Olympics thread.
I appreciate all the help, I think I just suck at math. I'd like to ask for more help if that's ok? I'm having trouble calculating using your formulas.
My goal is to decide which weapon to take for my barbarian, which will do on average more damage for the majority of my career (from lvl 1 to ~17 for the typical AP). Let's say I can hit by rolling a 5 or above for a typical enemy.
I will likely be able to enlarge person from a fairly low level in my party (wand from teammate if nothing else), so that would be 2d8=8.5 avg from a nodachi and 4d6=14 avg from the axe. I don't know how factoring in their normal crit ranges/multipliers changes things?
At level 10 and above the nodachi will probably be keen, and I'd like to think either weapon would have the impact quality as well as being enlarged. So there it would be 3d8=13.5 and 6d6=21. With these numbers I'd certainly want the axe, but I don't know how much of a factor the 15-20 x2/crit range would up the nodachi's numbers?
To complicate things more, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a good idea to get corrosive burst or similar on the nodachi at levels above 10.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Generally speaking- most 'energy added to weapon' abilities are not worth it. Even mild resistance takes out most of them. So the corrosive burst isn't worth it, even though acid is usually the better element for that kind of thing.
The only 'energy added to weapon' ability I like is from the elementalist shifter- and that has up to about 21 average extra scaling damage and the ability to shift between multiple elements. But that is not really relevant for this conversation.
On a different note- nothing is stopping you from getting a keen axe. Sure, it is not as amazing a boost as seen on nodachi, but it can help keen its damage relevant, even at higher levels. If you are willing to invest that onto a weapon anyway...
Other people can back me up, but I think straight enhancement bonuses end up in a net gain for damage due to the accuracy.
Other people can back me up, but I think straight enhancement bonuses end up in a net gain for damage due to the accuracy.
Yeah, straight bonuses are usually the way to go unless you find something that is completely transformative for your style. Like cruel for intimidation builds (so you add on even more debuffs) or fortuitous for reach/AoO builds (because you get a mini full attack for 1 AoO/round; it makes the GM consider which enemy he is willing to risk on that).
I appreciate all the help, I think I just suck at math. I'd like to ask for more help if that's ok? I'm having trouble calculating using your formulas.
My goal is to decide which weapon to take for my barbarian, which will do on average more damage for the majority of my career (from lvl 1 to ~17 for the typical AP). Let's say I can hit by rolling a 5 or above for a typical enemy.
I will likely be able to enlarge person from a fairly low level in my party (wand from teammate if nothing else), so that would be 2d8=8.5 avg from a nodachi and 4d6=14 avg from the axe. I don't know how factoring in their normal crit ranges/multipliers changes things?
At level 10 and above the nodachi will probably be keen, and I'd like to think either weapon would have the impact quality as well as being enlarged. So there it would be 3d8=13.5 and 6d6=21. With these numbers I'd certainly want the axe, but I don't know how much of a factor the 15-20 x2/crit range would up the nodachi's numbers?
To complicate things more, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a good idea to get corrosive burst or similar on the nodachi at levels above 10.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Straight enhancement bonuses and largest crit range are usually the biggest factors for weapon damage. Eventually weapon damage dice just aren't particularly relevant.
Looking at averages, a nodachi would go from 1d10 to 2d8 (which is 9 avg damage). I'm not sure which axe you're using, but I think you've got the wrong values as the most damaging axe I can think of is the greataxe, which does 1d12 which would go to 3d6 (which is 10.5 avg damage). I guess the butchering axe has 3d6 base damage, which I think goes to 4d6 (can't find the right chart) but you didn't mention taking exotic weapon proficiency for it. Ignoring the bucthering axe for the time being you can see the average damage difference between the nodachi and greataxe is only 1.5 damage when enlarged. Which is nothing.
Edit: A note on calculating average weapon damage values:
Lets take 1d8 as an example. You can roll a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Assuming all results are equally likely, you total up the value of all faces and divide by the number of faces. In this case that's 36 / 8 which is 4.5 average damage for 1d8. For 2d8 it would be double, which is 9. An easy way to calculate this is to add 1 to the die size (i.e. 8 from 1d8) and divide by 2, it provides the same result.
The DPR calculator is useful, but it's also good to understand how to calculate it by hand so that when you're using the excel spreadsheet you understand what it's doing and so that you use it correctly.
For instance, that spreadsheet that you linked isn't particularly user friendly (IMO).
No, it is not.
Which is why I demonstrated how to calculate by hand first.
Sometimes doing 90% every turn is less important than a chance to do 100% in one turn.
And sometimes, doing 100% of an enemie's HP in damage every round is way better than doing 90% halt the time and 110% the other half.
When you need a good weapon damage roll to overcome DR/Hardness, you're de facto useless against that enemy anyway. Most of the times, relaibility is better than swinginess.
For instance, that spreadsheet that you linked isn't particularly user friendly (IMO).
Some of it probably comes from Google Docs' limitations, but the layout is atrocious, and it's way overly narrow and yet often redundant. I've written a DPR calculator of my own in Excel, I may try transmuting it for Office Online. *curse that thing for not allowing ActiveX elements!*
On DR as an issue, for the most part two-handed weapon damage doesn't have to worry about DR one way or the other. You're usually doing enough damage you'll break through it. Besides which, in the specific example here the max of 2d8 is 16 and the max of 3d6 is 18. Rolling really well on weapon damage isn't going to be the make or break on bypassing DR (probably) and even if that 2 points of damage is the only thing you're able to get through, then it probably doesn't matter because you're still terribly outclassed anyways.