What is the official method of calculating the time required to upgrade a starship?
I ask because my DM has interpreted the "1d4 days per system" to mean 1d4 days per part change. So if we want to upgrade power, shields, add a flak thrower to the aft arc, then add and twin link a laser to the turret it takes 7d4 days assuming you don't have to add or replace any weapon mounts. That's 1d4 to remove an item and another 1d4 to install the new one, repeated in sequence for each item. The result has been that a level worth of upgrades takes about a month of down time. Since we're doing the Dead Suns ap and the DM is emphasizing that there's some time critical thing going on we've ended up flying around the level 7/8 parts of the ap in a tier 4 ship.
If he asks for 1d4 per system, then spend 7d4 days.
Critical timing thing ongoing or not, if you don't upgrade your ship, you will die in starship combat anyways.
retrofitting (changes without new BP):
"Refitting a single system or starship weapon usually
takes 1d4 days."
upgrading (spending new BP):
"installing a single upgrade takes 1d4 days"
there's literally nothing saying you can't do more than one system at a time, especially if you've got the manpower.
and yeah, if GM isn't allowing you to upgrade your ship in the AP, you's gonna die.
I'm also running the AP for my group, and basically any time they're in port, it goes in to get retrofitted/upgraded to whatever tier they're gonna be by the time they leave. Like while they were in the jungle, the university lady was like "hey, while you were out, I upgraded your power core and shields and stuff".
Kinda sounds like your GM is just trying to be a dick (or inadvertently being one, may not be intentional).
Well the DM is a little inexperienced so I'm inclined to be forgiving. While I'm pretty sure that the ap mostly moves at the speed of plot the DM is having the npcs act like there's a big hurry-up and we need to catch up the cultists. So we're being good little rail followers and hurrying.
He did complain that we ran away from the Azzy-whatsit ship but they blew almost completely through our front shields in the surprise round and more than half way through the aft shields the following round. We really didn't see any choice but blowing a bunch of resolve to keep speed boosting away.
Well, really do not want to spoil things, but you are mostly right. Things move at the speed of plot, and the AP assumes players do refit their ship.
That encounter you ran from was totally optional, and not related to the plot. But it's a good example of how your team will die in starship combat if they don't refit the ship. There are more starship combats in future books, and some of those are plot-based (so running from them will not be a possibility, probably). A Tier 4 ship will be destroyed vs the fights you will have to face at level 8 to 12.
alternatively, let the GM kill you all in the gimped ship, and then say "well, what'd you expect when you wouldn't let us upgrade it, and you knew the CRs of the ships we'd be facing. Good game though, wanna do a retcon and say we've been upgrading our ship the whole time and do it again?" (not really a good idea, but with his complaining, I think it'd at least be a good idea to broach the subject now and explain that you all WILL die in future space fights if things don't change)
But seriously though, I think the adventure REALLY should have spelled out more on "while the PCs are doing X, this is a good time to have their ship upgraded to lvl Y which they'll be once they're done exploring", considering this is a new adventure for a new system, there should have been slightly more hand holding imo in this department. I kept looking for good "downtime" options for ship retrofitting in the books, and finding none. So that's why I adopted the off-screen upgrades while the PCs are exploring. Not 100% sure how I'll be working it now that they're out in the expanse...
Put me down in the "you can do multiple systems simultaneously" camp. Basically, you'd only need to stack the times needed if the work is being done by basically one person. Pretty much any dock not working on a shoestring will be able to do multiple jobs at once on a ship.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Worst case, in my book, the average station can do 1D4 "system" refits/upgrades at the same time. This allows a small simulation of differences in demand at different ports and times. Also, by the book, ti states 1d4 days to refit a system... To me that includes both taking an item off, and putting a new one in it's place, in the same 1D4 days.
I think the AP actually has the GM tell the players that they don't have time to upgrade. It makes allowances in case they push for it but the path encourages this kind of stuff. With so much of the level system already a huge abstract this is a weird line to draw for me.
Its perfectly fine for there to not be time to upgrade all the time. However, if there's no time to upgrade, than the CR of ensuing space encounters must be based on their actual ship tier, not the hypothetical tier it would have if they'd been able to upgrade.
rook1138 wrote: alternatively, let the GM kill you all in the gimped ship, and then say "well, what'd you expect when you wouldn't let us upgrade it, and you knew the CRs of the ships we'd be facing. Good game though, wanna do a retcon and say we've been upgrading our ship the whole time and do it again?" (not really a good idea, but with his complaining, I think it'd at least be a good idea to broach the subject now and explain that you all WILL die in future space fights if things don't change)
But seriously though, I think the adventure REALLY should have spelled out more on "while the PCs are doing X, this is a good time to have their ship upgraded to lvl Y which they'll be once they're done exploring", considering this is a new adventure for a new system, there should have been slightly more hand holding imo in this department. I kept looking for good "downtime" options for ship retrofitting in the books, and finding none. So that's why I adopted the off-screen upgrades while the PCs are exploring. Not 100% sure how I'll be working it now that they're out in the expanse...
Rook, it also sounds like the GM in question is using a classic "n00b" GM technique: Deus Ex Machina. IOW, the GM is using their NPCs as "PCs" and "saving the day" and not allowing their players to make their own decisions and dealing with the consequences.
TBH, I despise this, both as a player and as a GM. It means the GM is being lazy and not putting in the effort and dedication to make the game enjoyable. The GM is basically saying "Look at MY characters! They're stronger, better, luckier, blah blah blah...that YOUR characters. Only THEY can save you, NOT yourselves."
If the campaign "seemingly" derails because of what the PLAYERS choose to do, then it's the GMs job to bring it back, i.e. exercise some creativity...you know, use their brain and THINK of something even better than what the AP says to do. That way, the campaign is made your own, not rubber stamped. I can't tell you how many campaigns I've played from "premade" adventures from the publisher and we, the players, did something so totally off the wall, the GM was almost apoplectic. BUT, our good GMs rolled with it, changed it up (also defeating the players who also had the premade and cheated knowing what was coming up), and bam! We players had a blast, the GM was well rewarded for their ingenuity and creativity and the campaign was a success.... because we all had fun. And that's the point....the ONLY point of gaming. It should be fun. If it's not (even for one player out of 4 to 8) then the GM isn't doing it right.
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
