
Matthew Downie |

In general, Fighter isn't a great class. With what I think of as a regular build (the sort of thing a new player would make with 15 point buy) you're an unskilled idiot who can deal good damage and survive physical attacks and has a poor Will save. The other martial classes (Barbarian, Ranger, Paladin, Slayer...) can also deal damage and survive physical attacks, but have more skill points and/or magical abilities, and probably better saving throws.
If that's not what you want, you can make a Fighter with half-decent skills. But this has a cost. Now you're as skilled as the Ranger, but without the magic, and the resources you spent to achieve this came from your physical stats, so the Ranger can match you in battle too.
With a lot of system mastery, you can probably make a Fighter who is a decent all-rounder. But it seems a lot easier just to pick another martial class, as long as you can find one where the flavor fits the character you have in mind.

Volkard Abendroth |

With a lot of system mastery, you can probably make a Fighter who is a decent all-rounder. But it seems a lot easier just to pick another martial class, as long as you can find one where the flavor fits the character you have in mind.
With system mastery you can make Schodinger's fighter, with excellent all-round abilities, top tier DPR, and all good saves.
Without system mastery, you complain about something you do not understand.

bhampton |
I'll say that the wizard also only gets 2 skill points +Int/level. The fact that most wizards happen to have good intelligence is the choice of the players. I've made a combat expertise fighter who had Int, which lead to a good number of skills. No, soldiers didn't design castles, that'd be the nerds that did that. Also, acrobatics for a fighter...a fighter who wears plate? +5 Armour check penalty on that, +2 if you got a heavy shield, even if it was a class skill, you'd still be level 4 before you broke even on that, not to mention that you can't even use acrobatics to move past an enemy wearing medium or heavy armour.

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I removed a very aggressive argument between a small handful of posters. Both the posts and responses to it were inappropriate for the paizo.com forums. Once you begin down a path of back and forth aggressive arguing with another poster, regardless of if you think you are right, you need to either figure out a way to deescalate or stop engaging and flag the posts. Debating is fine, sharing your perspective is fine, but insulting or arguing on the forums is not fine.

Volkard Abendroth |

Also, acrobatics for a fighter...a fighter who wears plate? +5 Armour check penalty on that, +2 if you got a heavy shield, even if it was a class skill, you'd still be level 4 before you broke even on that, not to mention that you can't even use acrobatics to move past an enemy wearing medium or heavy armour.
Armor Training reduces the armor check penalty.
By level 4, the fighter has Armor Training I and should have at least masterwork armor. Reducing the ACP to 3. If Acrobatics is a class skill, you have a +4 on the roll, assuming a 10 DEX.
With Armor Training IV and masterwork or better armor, even full plate has an ACP of 0

bhampton |
bhampton wrote:Also, acrobatics for a fighter...a fighter who wears plate? +5 Armour check penalty on that, +2 if you got a heavy shield, even if it was a class skill, you'd still be level 4 before you broke even on that, not to mention that you can't even use acrobatics to move past an enemy wearing medium or heavy armour.Armor Training reduces the armor check penalty.
By level 4, the fighter has Armor Training I and should have at least masterwork armor. Reducing the ACP to 3. If Acrobatics is a class skill, you have a +4 on the roll, assuming a 10 DEX.
With Armor Training IV and masterwork or better armor, even full plate has an ACP of 0
True, forgot about that, but he can't use acrobatics in heavy armour to move past a foe till level 7, and by that point, if he wants to be acrobatic in heavy armour (and really, why wouldn't you if you could) he'd have invested a measly amount on Boots of Elvenkind. Though, as the acrobatics check is vs 5+CMD, by level 7 unless you have good dex and invested in it to begin with, might be easier just to bull-rush