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So, there are 6 Bestiaries available for PF 1.0
Some of you may have seen/used/contributed to my wish list sheet I maintained leading up to Bestiary 6.
With the announcement, I thought it might be an idea to do something similar, listing the creatures people would most like to see in the first Bestiary for Pathfinder second edition.
Now, there are some stalwarts we will have to have, like goblins, orcs, skeletons, zombies, and so on - the classics.
Let's assume 60-70% of the Bestiary will be classics, leaving 30-40% we can have some influence on maybe. It may be too late to help Paizo decide what to include in the first 2.0 Bestiary, it may not, so here's what I propose.
I will maintain a sheet of creatures listed in all the Bestiaries and I will regularly report the trends and top votes, collating and updating on a weekly basis.
The sheet will be tab separated by CR and will include a vote count column, creature name, type, and source. It will be as forumlae free as possible, maintaining highest compatibility will all the sheet readers and versions as possible.
All you have to do is post into the thread voting for one to three creatures of each CR you want to vote for.
Although I start with the Bestiaries, if your really want to vote for something in an AP or other Paizo product, please do so, quoting the source book it is from, and its CR so I can add it to the correct tab.
Additionally, you can request up to 4 brand new creatures not yet available, but must supply the origin of the creature - e.g. aboriginal beliefs, Slavic folklore, a url/web link to the lore behind the suggestion.
I will pop in here and collate the votes once a week, posting the current top 5 or so of each CR, and providing a drop box / google drive type link to the current sheet.
Once we start seeing a trend, I might ask for more votes from everyone to add to their list to fill out a preferences - it all depends how active this idea is and whether it is helping everyone, including Paizo, or not.
Let's give it a try, the worst case is our votes are too late to be taken into account, best case is we get a Bestiary that the majority of us really like the final selection of creatures within it.
No need to explain votes, or argue against votes - it's personal preference, so let's just keep this thread clean and vote heavy. Discussions are invited, just please in a separate thread - it will make it much easier for me to collate the votes that way.
In this thread, we are just collating our personal preferences, looking for that sweet overlap that the majority will enjoy.
Just post something like (these are made up) for your votes,
CR 1 - Binky - Bestiary 12
CR 6 - Flumph - Bestiary 99, Snow Flumph - Bestiary 100
CR 12 - Campanestri - Bestiary 15
CR 29 - Jason Bulhman - AP Dungeons of Paizo, Chapter 3 - The desk of Horror
New Creature - Slime Haggis, from the annals of Scottish legends.
New Creature - Rotten Rose, from the annals of English folklore.
Also note, there are some things we can't ask / vote for due to copyrights, like Illithids, so don't vote for those, we can't have them.
So vote away... while I build the sheet this weekend and populate with the first votes.
The only ones I'm particularly fond of would be...
Silvanshee Agathion
Pseudodragon
Pegasus
Giant Owl
Beyond that, I'm good with whatever.
Vilderavn, I basically got B5 just because of those
Awesome, we have the ball rolling.
The sheet construction is coming along nicely to log these votes.
The read only google share is here
Content so far stands at...
Bestiary 1 - complete
Bonus Bestiary - complete
Bestiary 2 - starting next
Bestiary 3 - not listed yet
Bestiary 4 - not listed yet
Bestiary 5 - not listed yet
Bestiary 6 - not listed yet
Keep your votes coming, the more votes we have, the more likely we can help out the selection of creatures for the first 2.0 Bestiary.
I have already found the sheet useful for planning my next campaign, using excel, I can click the table headers and filter the rows for creature types I am wanting for a creature type themed campaign. It might work in google sheet views too, not sure, but it might.
Ok, The sheet building continues, and I have added an All tab in case you find vote selection easier using that.
Progress...
Bestiary 1 - indexed,
Bonus Bestiary - indexed,
Bestiary 2 - indexed,
Bestiary 3 - starting next,
Bestiary 4 - not listed yet,
Bestiary 5 - not listed yet,
Bestiary 6 - not listed yet
Bit behind on the index of Bestiary 3 because I was in Scotland visiting friends and family. Back now thou, so you will see Bestiary 3 creatures being added over the next few days.
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Looking at the list as it's growing, I think you can vote for up to 5 creatures per CR to be voted for. I didn't realise how stingy a single vote per CR was until I tried listing mine >.<
Going forwards, please use the name as found in the sheet for your votes, it will make it so much easier for me to update the totals.
As long as the artwork of the Chromatic/Metallic Dragons featured in the manual is of ANCIENT Chromatic/Metallic Dragons or older, then I'll be fine with whatever Paizo puts in their new Bestiary.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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That is very unlikely to happen. Part of the point of re-doing the rules is to make the game easier to play and more accessible. Making people do self-conversions of 80% of the monsters in the book is in direct opposition to that goal, so I wouldn't expect it to happen.
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Erik, you asked (on Enworld and here on another thread, I think?) if people would be okay with a "heftier" Bestiary 1, with more monsters and a higher price tag. Any news on that? I personally would prefer a thicker Bestiary with as many entries as possible; on the other hand, I can understand that a higher price tag could turn away a lot of potential new customers.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Erik, you asked (on Enworld and here on another thread, I think?) if people would be okay with a "heftier" Bestiary 1, with more monsters and a higher price tag. Any news on that? I personally would prefer a thicker Bestiary with as many entries as possible; on the other hand, I can understand that a higher price tag could turn away a lot of potential new customers.
There's a whole thread on it in this forum with lots of posts from lots of perspectives. I'd say, generally, people are in favor of a bigger "Bestiary 1" to get as many "core" monsters into the new rules ecosystem, with concerns being more about binding quality, weight, and lore/stats balance than cost.
I'd say I'm in favor of it, but we haven't made the decision yet.
Erik, you asked (on Enworld and here on another thread, I think?) if people would be okay with a "heftier" Bestiary 1, with more monsters and a higher price tag. Any news on that? I personally would prefer a thicker Bestiary with as many entries as possible; on the other hand, I can understand that a higher price tag could turn away a lot of potential new customers.There's a whole thread on it in this forum with lots of posts from lots of perspectives. I'd say, generally, people are in favor of a bigger "Bestiary 1" to get as many "core" monsters into the new rules ecosystem, with concerns being more about binding quality, weight, and lore/stats balance than cost.
I'd say I'm in favor of it, but we haven't made the decision yet.
Thank you for being so open about the design process with us. It is absolutely awesome how much the design team has been responding to people's ideas.
I imagine that most official decisions are still un consideration, as far as making requests for monsters to find in the first bestiary, is there value for those of us asking for playable monsters/non-core ancestries to be with-held from the bestiary and put in their own book? Or is that formatting already a done deal, so you'd rather hear people's preferred monsters including those that people are hoping for playable support?|
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Erik, you asked (on Enworld and here on another thread, I think?) if people would be okay with a "heftier" Bestiary 1, with more monsters and a higher price tag. Any news on that? I personally would prefer a thicker Bestiary with as many entries as possible; on the other hand, I can understand that a higher price tag could turn away a lot of potential new customers.There's a whole thread on it in this forum with lots of posts from lots of perspectives. I'd say, generally, people are in favor of a bigger "Bestiary 1" to get as many "core" monsters into the new rules ecosystem, with concerns being more about binding quality, weight, and lore/stats balance than cost.
I'd say I'm in favor of it, but we haven't made the decision yet.
Thanks, Erik! Hopefully we'll get a bigger Bestiary, but perhaps you could do both? I mean, would it be out of the question to publish PF2 Beginner Box with less monsters alongside the core books?
Thanks everyone for popping in, especially Erik.
I'll carry on building the voting sheet for now because even if we cant influence the first Bestiary, there are bound to be more over time, and it can't hurt for you all to see what is most requested / liked by your customers.
Just because the sheet is taking some time to build, feel free to vote as soon as you like, picking from all 6 Bestiaries which are your favourites.
What are the Chol, Ham Varenti, Garei, Amarun, Stewa Rutu, and Kubot? Nothing's coming up on Google because the name is too short and generic. I'm also not sure I'm finding the same Jiaotu you did, given that Google is telling me it's a fairly standard Chinese dragon and not something that would qualify as an aberration.
Chol = Sand Phoenix (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chol_(Bible) )Ham Verenti = Persian Warrior Spirit
Garei = Living Painting from Japanese Myths (https://hyakumonogatari.com/2013/10/27/garei-the-picture-ghost/)
Amarum = Spirit Snake with the souls of mages inside it (https://pantheon.org/articles/a/amarum.html)
Stewa Rutu = Like some Bhutan version of a Lovecraft horror thing, much like the Butatsch-Cun-Ilgs with tentacles which drain blood from shadows. (http://guardian-cross.wikia.com/wiki/Stewa_Rutu)
Kubot = Replacement for Harionago, it is an aswang with living hair. (https://gunshiprevolution.deviantart.com/art/Kubot-and-City-Guard-73170876 6)
Jiaotu is a snail dragon that loves solitude. (https://immortalmountain.wordpress.com/glossary/chinese-bestiary/
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Thank you! And especially thanks for providing sources as well.
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Gremlins! Any and all from Bestiary 2 and subsequent volumes!
I would like to see the Dragons redone for symmetry across the alignment grid.
The originals were the LE-NE-CE chromatic dragons and the LG-NG-CG metallic dragons. The other dragon groups were not set up the same way, with some of the groups almost having an alignment pattern with a single exception. Maybe have them refitted so that (as a potential example) primal dragons are CG-CN-CE and the imperial dragons LG-LN-LE.
Then other dragon types could be made across other lines/arrangements, such as NG-N-NE, LN-N-CN, LG-LE-CG-CE, LN-NG-NE-CN, etc.
I like this. I like Dragons. I really like the concept of beong able to have to bargain with, persuade, or otherwise interact with Dragon besides: it's Chromatic, we fight it or run away, and it's Metallic, we befriend it or at least aren't scared of dying.
The Imperials were so extreme that they had essentially the same affect as the metallics or chromatics, depending on which one you ran into. And as far as the primals... Well, like half of them were crazy or something like that. I don't know, I just want some dragons that are kind of like other NPCs: You're not automatically sure how to go about dealing with them.
Awesome, a nice bunch of voting has started - thanks all.
I'm getting my games club members wish lists this weekend to collate, and with all the votes above, I should be able to start populating the counts and reporting trends and top choices pretty soon.
The sheet now lists all from Bestiaries 1 thru 3 and I have already started on 4.
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I know this isn't in any bestiaries yet, but a quick shout out to the oni hannya. A fascinating creature that feeds off dark jealousy and negative feelings in mortals and slowly turns them into oni. From the nearly human yet redeemable namanari, to the more monsterous and powerful but still wardable chunari, to their final monsterous state as honnari hannya, incredibly strong, driven by their blindingly dark emotions, and totally beyond any hope or redemption or passive protection. But sadly we have never got that. Still, if corruption comes back, I would say hannya corruption would do well for an oni base.
If you want to go bold, leave out the Angels, Archons, Daemons, Demons and Devils. Replace them with: Agathions, Kytons, Manasaputras, Qlippoths, and Sahkils. If not kicking the originals to the curb, atleast making the new ones their equals in terms of representation.
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I vote for Azata in general, over the years I grew relly fond of them.
Also Death Knights, they are a relly cool alternative to Liches
And if hags are in I also want changelings.
Generally I am all about 'monsters' which are also Player characcter options.
I vote for Angels, Agathions, Azata, Azura, Inevitables, Oni, Proteans, Rakshasa, and Qlippoth.