Kingmaker issue with game fun / kingdom building

[nogoodscallywag]

This is my 2nd run through of this AP. The first group had only 2 members and they loved the slow-paced kingdom building aspect.

However, this 2nd group, not so much. We've got 6 players- I'm using the 6-player conversion rules which have worked great. However, this group, while being OK with kingdom-building, don't "love" it, and it shows during play. We've talked about it and they want to keep it, but one main issue I'm getting into that I did not get into before is the requirement that leaders stay in the kingdom most of the month to run it, leaving only a week for down time and exploring. They did not explore much (we are a few pages into Chapter) in chapter 1, adhering strictly to the exploration limit in the charter.

One month the PCs went out at the end of the month, then used the first week of the next month to explore, too, and made it back in time. However, one set of months they were delayed several weeks and thus had some vacancies, which of course adds penalties. Unfortunately, they rolled miserably and unrest increased to 5 or so. I don't foresee this being a problem, but they are now hesitant to go exploring solely on the worry of vacancies.

i thought I'd run some ideas by the messageboard and see if his would hurt the game balance at all:

1. Distance=time. I'm not sure about the 3-week rule and the location of the leaders. Therefore, I'm going to say that any hex that has been claimed as part of the kingdom will be available for those leaders as they leave to explore. For example, their capitol is in the center of their kingdom; the farthest kingdom hex is still their kingdom, so they aren't absent until they leave that hex.

2. To encourage more exploring, lessen the vacancy penalties. The entire group wants to explore together. They do have appointed leaders, and the top official (Governor) has appointed an NPC to act in his stead. Rather than leaving all PC roles with a vacancy penalty, allowing the group to pick one (probably the Governor role) to remain "placed," thus negating penalties for that.

3. Alternatively to #2, just get rid of the vacancy penalties when the group is away exploring (since exploring is still, in a sense, kingdom duties!)

[Matthew Downie]

As I recall, when I played we had to be governing for one week per month and could explore the rest of the time. I don't know which of us was doing it 'right', but it sounds more fun our way.

[Phntm888]

PRD wrote:

Responsibilities of Leadership: In order to gain the benefits of leadership, you must spend at least 7 days per month attending to your duties; these days need not be consecutive. This can be roleplayed or can be assumed to run in the background without needing to be defined or actively played out. Time spent ruling cannot be used for adventuring, crafting magic items, or completing other downtime activities (see Chapter 2) that require your full attention and participation. Failure to complete your duties during a turn means treating the role as thought it's vacant.

Per the PRD and Ultimate Campaign, you only need to spend 7 days per month attending to duties, and they don't need to be consecutive. That means the party can spend a week doing Kingdom building, spend 6 weeks exploring, and then come back to do 2 weeks of Kingdom building (2 turns in a row) before going and doing 6 weeks of exploring in a row. As long as they leave themselves time to travel back, they should be able to get a decent amount of exploration done between Kingdom building turns.

[Warped Savant]

I don't remember how specific the rules are about it but there's nothing that says the rulers have to be in the capital city for the 7 days per month. That tells me they could be anywhere in the kingdom and therefore idea #1 you had is perfectly valid.

But yeah, clearing up that they only have to be in the kingdom for 7 days of the month (or 7 straight days per month if you're using the Kingmaker kingdom rules) will make a big difference compared to only being able to explore for a week per month.

[Indraea]

Phntm888 wrote:

PRD wrote:

Responsibilities of Leadership: In order to gain the benefits of leadership, you must spend at least 7 days per month attending to your duties; these days need not be consecutive. This can be roleplayed or can be assumed to run in the background without needing to be defined or actively played out. Time spent ruling cannot be used for adventuring, crafting magic items, or completing other downtime activities (see Chapter 2) that require your full attention and participation. Failure to complete your duties during a turn means treating the role as thought it's vacant.

Per the PRD and Ultimate Campaign, you only need to spend 7 days per month attending to duties, and they don't need to be consecutive. That means the party can spend a week doing Kingdom building, spend 6 weeks exploring, and then come back to do 2 weeks of Kingdom building (2 turns in a row) before going and doing 6 weeks of exploring in a row. As long as they leave themselves time to travel back, they should be able to get a decent amount of exploration done between Kingdom building turns.

Basically this.

So, you'd do something akin to:

Month 1
- Week 1: hang around for a week somewhere inside the Kingdom, doing kingdom management stuff.
- Week 2: do whatever!
- Week 3: do whatever!
- Week 4: do whatever!
Month 2
- Week 1: do whatever!
- Week 2: do whatever!
- Week 3: do whatever!
- Week 4: hang around for a week somewhere inside the Kingdom, doing kingdom management stuff.

So you have two weeks of back-to-back kingdom management, which is probably a good way to run things anyway, and then you have 6 weeks for downtime, adventuring, whatever, which should be plenty even if you have to do a lot of travel between locations. (And honestly, 6 weeks is a long time to be away from a proper bed, bath, and kitchen.)

[Chemlak]

As others have pointed out, it’s 7 days per month, they don’t have to be consecutive, and the rules just say “attending to your duties” - they place no restriction on location (so the Diplomat could even be out of the country), so for most roles simply saying “I’m spending a day on duty” in a small town on the border counts.

[Indraea]

The Diplomat bit is also a great point. If you go off script and have an 'adventure' that involves a bunch of political intrigue with another realm, there's no reason the Diplomat (and maybe even some other roles, depending on circumstances) couldn't count that towards their 7 days, which means that even if other party members still need to get in their seven days that month, the Diplomat can now use that time for downtime activities like crafting, retraining, etc. It rewards players for thinking about how their character can be performing their role even as they go adventuring, which should hopefully increase their investment in the role.

[pennywit]

You've got it reversed. You're supposed to spend 1 week attending to duties, rest of the month adventuring.

And you as GM can enliven this and turn the kingdom responsibilities into an adventure. Let's consider a scenario from Blood for Blood

Blood for Blood:

Aside from the major plot elements of the Tiger Lord Barbarians, Hannis Drelev, and Irovetti's manipulation, the Hooktongue Slough offers plenty of threat for your players and their kingdom.

Consider the following elements:

* The Boggard Village
* Ngara the spirit naga
* Windchaser the awakened horse
* Fey Pranksters
* Hill giants

Finally, the wandering monster table lists a black dragon (or maybe a couple of them) as a potential encounter.

The book comes with the bones of a couple potential plotlines (especially with the spirit naga charming the boggard chieftain).

But let's add a little bit.

Let's say the black dragons are a young mated pair about to have kids, and they've decided to nest in Hooktonge Slough. They really want things quiet so they can raise their kids. They don't want human adventurers to come bothering them, and they really, REALLY want the boggards and everyone else to stop making trouble. They just want a nice, safe swamp to raise their kids. The main forces standing in his way are Ngara, Windchaser, and the hydra, all for different reasons.

So, let's set things in motion. We have three power players:

* The dragons

* Windchaser

* Ngara

They're going to create some intrigues between each other, possibly spilling out, as they struggle for one of them to rule the swamp. Well, Ngara and the dragons want to rule. Windchaser probably just wants to be safe.

Their possible patsies include the hydra, the fey pranksters, the boggards, and the hill giants. Hell, some of the other beasties can be their patsies, too.

You'll have to ad-hoc the plotline a bit, but you ought to construct a timeline for yourself of how the swamp dwellers try to one-up each other and how their feuds spill into the players' kingdom.

But what does this have to do with making duties interesting?

Some ideas:

When things start spilling out of the swamp, it falls to the Marshal and the General to patrol the borders and see what is happening. Perhaps you can craft an encounter where they encounter a group of boggards raiding an outlying farm. To make this fun, perhaps they are accompanied by a troupe of NPC guards that your PCs can direct. These are legitimately part of their responsibilities and can fulfill part of the "do your kingdom job 7 days a month" requirement.

Curious what's going on in the swamp? Sounds like the Marshal and the Spymaster ought to consult with each other and send scouts out to find out what's going on.

Incidentally, farmers and holders on the border are going to be concerned and scared, particularly about the rumor of dragons. Perhaps the Counselor needs to visit with these folk and assure them that the ruler cares. The High Priest may provide spiritual comfort.

Meanwhile, the Grand Diplomat might send envoys to Fort Drelev and see if he is doing anything about the boggards and other baddies in the swamp.

The Treasurer may consult with the General and the Ruler about the cost of mounting a military expedition.

I suggest putting together little vignettes at the beginning of sessions, perhaps as a cold open. These are all ways to give your players something interesting to do in running the kingdom. Also, it takes away a little bit of player agency, but you could just say, "Is it OK if we start with the Warden on patrol at the frontier?" Give him a short encounter where he commands his troops. You could even let your other players step into the role of the bad guys for a quick encounter.