So I have a custom starship frame I've made that I though I would share, and I'd like to see what other people have brewed as starship options. This thread should focus on the options brewed more than the ships built, but I wouldn't be surprised to see examples of ships built with those homebrew options. So without further adieu...
Corvette
Size Frame: Tiny
Maneuverability: Perfect (+0 piloting, turn 0)
HP: 30 (increment 5); DT: -; CT: 6
Mounts: forward arc (1 light)
Expansion Bays: 1
Minimum Crew: 1; Maximum Crew: 1
Cost 8
Notes:
- The usual bonus to piloting due to perfect maneuverability is lost.
- This frame include basic quarters for the crew which cannot be upgraded
I have a campaign I'm running with this as one of two PC ships. It seems to be fairly balanced, but I don't have a ton of time seeing it in action.
I made one mistake, and now I can't edit my post now. The maximum crew should be 2.
I'm confused about it having an expansion bay. Other than that, it looks fine :)
I did have an idea about my own starships but I'm unsure how balanced the idea is; Being able to refund certain assumed systems for an extra BP or 2. E.g. Eoxian ships don't have life support? Do they get another BP or is it just like dumped ability scores? In either case it'd be nice to have a list of assumed components we could drop.
I created a "tug/pod" frame.
I used the racer stats but added a special module to it.
This module can be switched between passenger and cargo.
The passenger variant can hold up to 6 persons (+1 pilot), the cargo variant up to 5 tons.
the ship also have only light shields (max 40 points) and can be equiped with a small AP turret.
It can't hold a drift drive.
Its can be docked at Large+ ships and didn't need a special module (like a shuttle bay).
The idea was to give my player (who had a large freighter at this point) a small shuttle to land on planets (similar to the Shuttle pods form Star Trek: Enterprise) and the MPUV from Star Citizen was the inspiration. :)
I think life boats can be used in that way, but I could be wrong. This would be a very upgraded version either way. What BP cost you assign it?
Since it has no real combat value I didn't assigned any BP to the base version [no shields, speed 6, no AP weapon] - it comes with each large+ ship (larger ones maybe even have two or more)
Hmmm, I would consider giving some level of cost even if it has no combat value, but it is your game. I mean, not every ship even has escape pods, and those take up an expansion bay. What you're giving them is better than that by a lot even in a non combat version.
I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I don't think escape pods should take an expansion bay, only BP. In most scifi media I've seen, escape pods are just mounted in a line along the outside of the ship, accessed by a hallway, and detach directly from the hull.
Anyway, as far as frames I made one I called the Pathfinder, intended as the next ship the PCs in my campaign will get to commandeer after I blow up their current ship in an upcoming quest. I wanted a better Medium-size ship than the available options in the rulebook, so I eyeballed the Explorer and Transport for comparison.
Pathfinder
Size: Medium (150-300 ft)
Maneuverability: Good (+1 Piloting, turn 1)
Hull Points: 60, increment 15; DT —; CT 12
Mounts: forward arc (2 light), port arc (1 light), starboard arc (1 light), aft arc (1 light), turret (1 light)
Expansion Bays: 6
Minimum Crew 2, Maximum Crew 8
Cost: 18 BP
(Cost thought process: The transport is 15 BP. Reducing the heavy forward mount to light and losing the second turret mount gets "9 BP worth" of which 6 is spent to buy port and starboard mounts. Between those "3 leftover points" and upgrading the maneuverability, increasing the expansion bays to 6, tweaking the crew count, and reducing the base hull points to 60 but keeping the increment at 15, I eyeballed the final cost at 18.)
@baggageboy: I can see your point here, but as Fuzzypaws mentioned, not all module "costs" are really logical (either from ingame logic or game design perspective).
Take the escape pods for example: If players have to use them, they already will suffer a loss (their ship), so you let them pay twice: Once when installing them and once for using them.
I think the space ship (maybe combat also) system needs a revamp.
First of all un-couple the ship progression from the level, make it simply something player can buy with credits/BPs (like in Kingmaker). You can still lock the ship frames to specific levels, so start players can only choose ships up to frame X, with level Y you unlock frame Y etc.
Then split the modules into two seperate categories:
1. Large Modules: These are the ones which really give a bonus in some sort and need a lot of space - they cost BP & Slots
2. Small Modules: These are either modules which are purely fluff or give no (or only a minor) bonus - they only cost BP
Also make the frames more unique, give them specific boni (e.g. an explorer get a scanning range bonus, a destroyer an attack bonus vs. small ships etc.) - this way the ships become more interessting and the players can really pick the one they want to use for their style.
(see: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ukkv?New-Option-Ship-Type-special-abilities)
Corvette is probably the wrong name for what I was trying to create. It's supposed to be basically a small fighting vessel and corvettes are small fighting vessels. However they are generally battleships so not exactly fighter size. If you have another name in mind I would love to hear it. I was never really satisfied with the one I had. I considered yacht, but that doesn't really bring the fighting vessel connotations I was looking for.
I do agree that not all of the expasuin bay costs really make sense. As it is though I'm reluctant to mess with it too much as of yet. Pretty much all of them fall into the second category of only providing bonuses outside of combat, so changing those to not require a slot would change the system pretty dramatically. If be interested to see a list of how you would break down each expansion bay into the two categories you layed out. Seeing a list might make it easier to understand the changes you would be making.
I do like the idea of separating the "useful" from the "fluff" upgrades, but as baggageboy mentioned it does require some thought. I might think more on this. Tentatively, I might look at "fluff" upgrades only taking half an expansion bay instead of a full bay.
Just tried to build the list and I think I see the problem.
Besides from Escape Pods, Recreational Suite and Smuggler Compartments, I would put the rest in the "need slot" category.
Which makes two categories senseless.
Neitherless the ship module system feels "artifical", especially if you compare it with real life ships (a naval frigate is around the size of a SF destroyer, carries two helicopter (shuttles), a few dozen escape pods, a med bay, etc. etc.)
But I think to fix this you have to rework the ship-system completely (e.g. un-link the ship progression from the character progression and make it more based on "how many gold do you have?" - this way you can also add salvaging etc.)
May be an approach where a ship has it's combat stats (weapons, shields, speed) which are bound to a slot system, but all other are simply "how much do you want to invest?" (like the stronghold builder in D&D 3.5)
The stronghold guide was so good! I could definitely see that getting reworked into a more comprehensive ship building system. Would require a lot of work but would probably be worth it.
Like a lot of people I do recommend keeping BP completely decoupled from credits, though. But it should be reasonably easy to work out BP values for ship and derelict space station salvage, quest rewards and expected BP by level.
I think I will give the "Ship Builders Guidebook" a try. Let's see what I will come up with.
Always happy for Input, Help, Feedback etc. :)
Your basic flying saucer is a shuttle with a lab instead of a cargo hold. There are carriers, shaped like giant cigars, possibly equipped with cloaking technology. The big motherships are almost as big as a moon with 100 bays, with a central gun capable of hollowing out a moon to hide in or terraforming a continent at a time.
If you get a hold of one of the Grey's ships, they wanted you to.
Their sensor array has a slider switch that controls how much you feel like you are being watched.
When first looking at Starfinder starship rules I wanted things like cloaking shields for my ship design, but didn't have that option in the Core, so built my own mechanic for it. I saw a general lack in arcane options for ships that technomancers might be able to place fusions into it. I approached a designer who had similar concerns and was building a community-use add-on to SF starship rules. And together we decided to publish a larger set of rules.
Some issues we shared was that Paizo's rule on cargo bays at 25 tons, didn't make any sense. At smaller ships it wasn't a problem, but looking at a huge bulk freighter, having up to 10 cargo bays but only 250 tons total, didn't feel "bulk" to me. So we did change this rule as an option. We also included ways a ship could gain extra cargo bay spaces, by multiplying ship frame costs to 1.5, subtracting 1 hex in speed for each added bay, even a tiny ship (which by Paizo's available frames didnt have one available), but our rules (the max add-on extra bays is determined by the size of the ship) - since tiny is size 1, it could hold 1 expansion bay.
So as cargo tonnage goes, a tiny ship can have 1 each, 10 x 10 x 10 cargo space holding 25 tons. A small ship can have 20 x 20 x 20 cargo bay, or 8 times the standard tonnage or 200 tons. So a bulk freighter can have a 50 x 50 x 50 ft bay, at 3,125 tons, thus 10 bays is 31,250 tons of cargo - that seems more bulk to me.
Another Paizo hard-wired rule is that large ships are the largest ships that can enter an atmosphere, land and takeoff again. Which is fine, but what if you wanted to land a bulk number of troops for an invasion, or a bulk amount of cargo for colonization purposes, or deliver a planetary defense shield system - drop 3 such to protect a planet. So we created Landers, which are huge sized drop pods that can enter an atmosphere, control it's descent to land on the opposite side of the planet with a pinpoint landing, but once grounded it cannot leave again.
We put that altogether with 21 new ship frames, 47 new expansion bays, dozens of system upgrades, optional rules, and 25 custom starship deck plans, as well as 3 deck massive space station to create Starships, Stations and Salvage Guide by Edward Moyer, as 3PP for Starfinder.
If the cargo bay weight limit is exceeded, you can never make planetfall or your ship will be torn apart by gravity.
Teleporters and solid light hologram projectors require technomancers on your ship design team. It would take an entire medical bay to support one cloning tank.
If the cargo bay weight limit is exceeded, you can never make planetfall or your ship will be torn apart by gravity.
It's not exceeded, it's built into the design up each frame, though still only large ships can enter, land and leave a planet. It's just that 25 tons fit in a 10 x 10 x 10 cargo bay, the larger ships have larger cargo bays, yet still have a maximum allowed tonnage, essentially cubed at each state up.
I've published this, but this thread is in homebrew, so what is canon is not so much canon, in homebrew nor 3PP settings using Starfinder.
Gravidic sensor array and monitoring station.
It takes up one bay internally. Basically it's a table with a holo-projector in the middle. It shows any gravity wells ahead in 3 dimensions, even in drift. Black holes are highlighted in red while goldilocks planets are highlighted in green. The design was lifted from a broken down drift beacon planting ship that was salvaged during the gap times, so not much else is known. It is generally only included in exploration ships. Unmarked planets are also good for secret spy posts.
There is a control panel at the head of the table that allows the image to be shared with the main screen on the bridge.
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So I have a custom starship frame I've made that I though I would share, and I'd like to see what other people have brewed as starship options. This thread should focus on the options brewed more than the ships built, but I wouldn't be surprised to see examples of ships built with those homebrew options. So without further adieu...
Corvette
Size Frame: Tiny
Maneuverability: Perfect (+0 piloting, turn 0)
HP: 30 (increment 5); DT: -; CT: 6
Mounts: forward arc (1 light)
Expansion Bays: 1
Minimum Crew: 1; Maximum Crew: 1
Cost 8Notes:
- The usual bonus to piloting due to perfect maneuverability is lost.
- This frame include basic quarters for the crew which cannot be upgradedI have a campaign I'm running with this as one of two PC ships. It seems to be fairly balanced, but I don't have a ton of time seeing it in action.
IMO, a ship classed as a corvette should be an Explorer or a Transport that's more geared to military action than the default Explorer/Transport frames - a corvette is small, but it's not "twin-seat fighter" small; the smallest modern corvettes ever built as warships were 57 meters long, displacement just over a thousand tons at full load, and had a crew of 85.
Indeed a corvette is a small destroyer, so as KittyBurger states, a medium sized ship is optimally a corvette, since a destroyer is a large ship. Since a transport has more guns than an explorer, I'd make a corvette having more guns than a transport - 2 large weapons on the forward arc, a turret with 2 light weapons, 1 light aft weapon and 1 light weapons on port and starboard arc. 1 minimum crew, 6 maximum crew. I'd go with 4 expansion bay slots like the Explorer. Maneuverability average (Piloting +0, turn 2).
For a corvette I would simply use the "transporter" frame.
I think it fits the mission profile of a corvette very well (fast (max. M12 thrusters), variable attack types (heavy mount, two turrets), flexible (5 bays) and sturdy (highest HP of all medium ships).
I think there is not really a need for a new frame for a corvette.
Attack Shuttle
Size Frame: Small
Maneuverability: Perfect (+0 piloting, turn 0)
HP: 40 (increment 10); DT: -; CT: 8
Mounts: turret (2 light or 1 heavy [min. tier 4])
Expansion Bays: 2
Minimum Crew: 1; Maximum Crew: 4
Cost 10
Since there are months between posts and its still on the front page...
Here is my go at it
A variable attack vehicle that can be loaded into a Shuttle Bay for escort and use by smaller ships then a Carrier
Max Crew size is the general Party Size and leaves decently distinct roles for everyone
Turret so the Gunner gets to do something every round while keeping within Reason for small ship, while leaving enough for some customization for the players to work with at low tiers if they are attached to a Huge Ship as part of a setting
Empty Expansion Bays can be fitted to hold troops for landings and Adjoined Bays can be used to land Fighting Craft on the Surface of Planets
Huh, without GM Fiat, it would take a Large Ship like a Heavy Freighter to Land a Single Hover Tank or Truck
What the Expansion Bays Really need is a Mod that Doubles or Quadruples Capacity like a Giant version of a Portable Hole
So in Core there is a the Null Space Chamber that is basically a futuristic Bag o' Holdin
and in Armory there are Vehicle features that have something of the sort...
So...
Null Space Cargo Hold MkI
Takes 2 Expansion Bays
Treats the 2 as if it where 4 contiguous Cargo Holds
Dunno on BP value
Null Space Cargo Hold MkII
Takes 2 Expansion Bays
Treats the 2 as if it where 8 contiguous Cargo Holds
Both only have the Air of when it was opened
Sounds like the Imp dropping a polearm meme.
If you line a bay with Imp rectum it can hold a landing craft of a size larger than the fighter as long as the bay is undamaged.
That made zero sense to me, but i'm assuming the Null Space Cargo Hold idea is what your talking about and it turns out a tank is considered a Gargantuan article and thus takes 8 cargo holds to have, Just seemed weird that a single ship of Large? Size could only hold one when you can do that with a Single Lockheed Hercules Plane can transport one
Side note, D20 Modern also considers tanks as Gargantuan
I think the complete cargo system is not well thought out. There were already some ideas which increase the cargo hold capacity based on the ship size (otherwise a ~500m Bulk freighter could only carry 10x25t = 250t freight). Also the ship tonnage is a little bit off - a 500m ship weights only 1000t ? (a modern frigate is 150m long and weights 7200t)
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While it's 3PP, in my Starships, Stations and Salvage Guide, we have huge drop pods that kind of go around the "large is the largest ship that can enter, land and takeoff on an atmosphere", with a huge drop ship that can enter the atmosphere of a planet, land on the opposite side, but once landed it cannot take off again. At 2000 feet long, it can carry multiple large vehicles, battallions of marines, giant 3D printers, planetary defense equipment, terraforming equipment or any large equipment or supplies needed to land on a planet quickly. Because these huge drop pods cannot leave the planet, they are often repurposed as fortifications and pre-fab building for other purposes.
K, so Everyman where Owen KC has also put some time with made
Star log.em -024 Expansion Bays, where they should have double checked for typos but they also had a Null Space Hold where you go Doctor Who on them and make it bigger on the Inside
Its also habitable which just seems odd. like what happens when you scan lifesigns? do they just overlap?
Anyways, going with those guidelines for HB and taking the values for MKI and II
so...
PCU 4 / BP 1
and
PCU 12/ BP 8
Side Note, they have the Hydroponics Bay in this book, but then in
Starfinder they made a Hydroponic Garden for Pact Worlds
I do not know who to suggest this to, but, Grappler Arms!
The captain sticks his arms into the sensor sleeves and the metal arms on the ship mimic their movement.
I do not know who to suggest this to, but, Grappler Arms!
The captain sticks his arms into the sensor sleeves and the metal arms on the ship mimic their movement.
While it's 3PP, already have Grappler Arms in Starships, Stations and Salvage Guide by Edward Moyer, that I published.
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There's also Infinite Space: Warp Speed! Expanded Starship Creation a 3PP from Louis Porter Jr. Design that has manipulator arms in it.
I do not know who to suggest this to, but, Grappler Arms!
The captain sticks his arms into the sensor sleeves and the metal arms on the ship mimic their movement.
Reminds me of MST3000 :D
I do not know who to suggest this to, but, Grappler Arms!
The captain sticks his arms into the sensor sleeves and the metal arms on the ship mimic their movement.Reminds me of MST3000 :D
I think they got it from outlaw star, an awesome anime.