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I don't use Fantasy Grounds since I still hope Paizo will make deal with Roll20(seriously please do that D: It'd be mean if when it was stated we should be patient it meant "yeah that is never gonna happen, we made exclusive deal with FG and smiteworks"), but I hadn't realized how absurd amount of paizo material there is available already ._. I mean I thought it would be slower process for some reason and there haven't been blog posts about new FG releases.
Anyway, is anyone else weirded out that RotR, Crimson Throne, Kingmaker, Hell's Rebels, Carrion Crown, Strange Aeons and Mummy's Mask is available on FG without there having really been made big deal about it here? :D Does anyone here use FG's pathfinder material so you could give comments on that?
I use Fantasy Grounds Pathfinder material. I find it to be excellent and worth the money I pay for it. My group thinks so as well.
I'm not familiar at all with Fantasy Grounds. It sounds like from the aforementioned posts that it's supported by Paizo now and it's not free?
I've only used Roll20.
For my online games, I definitely use FG and the pathfinder modules save me a lot of work 10/10
AFAIK Doug has never sought an exclusive deal with any publisher, he's pretty firmly in the opinion that more competition is better.
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I am a previous ROll20 user (and subscriber) and now I only play and run Pathfinder on FG. To be honest I wouldn't actually play or run any games 10+ without Fantasy Grounds now. The built in automation just makes it that much easier. That which isn't built in the purchased product to start with you can make by hand.
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Complexity depends. Most of the work is actually done for normal Bestiary or spells etc. in community modules or the more recent professional ones. So you don't even really need to do it.
Most Pathfinder status effects you can put on as a simple keyword like "fatigued" or "grappled". Most monster keywords also work such as DR automatically reducing damage.
But to do need something complex like a if your main weapon is bane you can put an effect on yourself of "Dragon Bane; IFT:type(dragon); ATK:2; DMG:2d6+2" If you aren't using your main weapon you can turn the effect off when not using that weapon. Again most of the time you aren't do this, but pulling out pre-done work.
I'm not a programmer, but am in IT and find me way around it easy enough when learned. Also they can be made generally available or copied from character to character easily enough.
Roll20 can do most things Fantasy Grounds can, but it always seems more work or more limited. I am out of date on Roll20 albeit.
I'm currently running Rise of the Runelords (anniversary edition) in Fantasy Grounds, using their official conversion, which is excellent. It's worth noting that if you've bought the pdf from Paizo, you can get a discount to that value on the same item in Fantasy Grounds (and, conversely, if you buy it in Fantasy Grounds, you can get a free copy of the pdf from Paizo).
You can see Doug Davison from Fantasy Grounds doing a demo of the Rise of the Runelords product features here. He's done similar videos for other Pathfinder releases of theirs (eg the Core Rulebook).
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I currently own the Rise of the Runelords campaign as well as the first module of the Carrion Crown AP in fantasy grounds. I must say that games like Pathfinder, with the rules complexity and modifier goostorm that accompany them are in desperate need of a good platform to help us poor simple-minded DMs with all the logistics and book keeping (that is if you really want to play the game and not an approximation of it). Not to mention that the platform is an excellent presentation tool. Move through the official dungeons with fog of war over the areas not yet visited, tokens for all monsters and NPC, artwork and links to all the rules and special abilities, initiative tracker... Pathfinder + Fantasy Grounds are a much made in heaven. Not to mention the zero prepping time!
So to answer your question, what has happened IS a big deal and you should buy the FG modules. You get the PDFs for free anyway if you buy the FG plug ins (and vice versa).
So what exactly do you need to buy in order to run an AP through this?
Assuming we have a full (everything) hero lab and wanted to run the AP in FG - do I need all the 'core books' and monster manuals?
Do I just need the AP?
Obviously a purchase of the program (or subscription) but I'm rather confused at how much more setup needs to happen to start a game up.
If fantasy grounds had a nice LFG like Roll20 has, I might would have given it a try.
So what exactly do you need to buy in order to run an AP through this?
You just need to buy the AP - it includes all the monsters, NPCs, items, maps, images, etc., that you'll need, all set up and ready to go. They only thing you need to add is your own PCs - so you might want to buy the core rules in order to get the nice artwork and drag-and-drop character creation, but you don't need it.
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I run games almost exclusively in Fantasy Grounds now.
The quality of the modules Smiteworks puts out completely changes or negates the concept of "GM Prep" - with a few clicks the combat tracker is populated with fully statted and illustrated NPC's, their tokens are automatically placed on high-quality full-color maps, and combat rolls are automatically calculated with the same drag and drop ease that spell effects and conditions share. Items "from the shop" or "dropped by enemies" are also all drag and drop, pre-populated with all their stats.
I can't for the life of me understand why this content isn't more popular than it already is. The extreme high fidelity of the modules they offer sharpens and brings the game experience into focus like no other. If you own the Paizo PDF there's a very generous discount and visa-versa.
If it's possible for a player to enjoy a game in Fantasy Grounds I have a hard time understanding any reasons why they don't. They just don't seem legitimate. A lot of times all I can see is the general sentiment of "I don't want to put effort into learning something new". Which is surprising coming from RPG players, but I think an aversion to incorporating technology or switching from one platform to the next (in terms of established Roll20 players) plays a role.
I suppose the issue for me is that I bought all the products from my FLGS to support them, so I get no discount at all, which means essentially paying for my entire collection of books again in order to run those games on FG. That's a really hefty pricetag to stack on top of learning an entirely new virtual tabletop interface. Yeah, the pricetag would likely be the same for Roll20, but honestly I'd be happy just buying all of the Bestiary content (even at full price) and then managing the game mechanics and AP stuff myself if that were an option on Roll20.
I can't for the life of me understand why this content isn't more popular than it already is.
<snip>
If it's possible for a player to enjoy a game in Fantasy Grounds I have a hard time understanding any reasons why they don't. They just don't seem legitimate.
If it's unimaginable to you, then you probably don't have any financial worries. Not everyone has all the money they need for all their hobbies.
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@Dhrakken
I stopped using Realm Works myself and use the Dulux-Oz community package to basically have a campaign system built into my game system.
@CrystalSeas
The purchased packages of APs is definitely a cash instead of time thing. You can manually build an AP you already own inside of FG (people have been doing this for years before Smiteworks started releasing the packages), this just gives an option for those with some more cash than time to do it the other way.
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this just gives an option for those with some more cash than time to do it the other way.
Yes, I'm glad that Paizo continues to be inclusive that way.
When I first started playing Pathfinder, my GM was all "oh, everything's on the web, you don't have to buy anything" and I was "nope, I don't do the pirate thing".
I was flabbergasted to find that Paizo themselves put everything on the web and that for home games, I didn't need to purchase anything if I was cash-strapped.
I sometimes make that time/money trade-off myself. I was merely pointing out that for most people it's easy to imagine a situation where not paying someone else to do your prep work makes sense.
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So what exactly do you need to buy in order to run an AP through this?
Assuming we have a full (everything) hero lab and wanted to run the AP in FG - do I need all the 'core books' and monster manuals?
Do I just need the AP?
Obviously a purchase of the program (or subscription) but I'm rather confused at how much more setup needs to happen to start a game up.
At bare minimum, you need either full or ultimate license, either in-full price or via subscription. Subscription does not get you a discount if you later decide to buy the outright licenses, but are a great way to try it at a limited cost at the outset. If you have the full license you can host games that anyone with at least a player license can join. If you have the ultimate license, your players only need the demo*free) version to play with you.
With the AP purchase, you get every monster, map, treasure, trap, image, etc in the AP, so you would not need ANY additional material to run it. Where the Core Rulebook comes in handy is having readily accessible drag and drop classes, races, feats, and probably most importantly Spells and Equipment for the PCs. You can parse spells on your own to get effects, but it's a LOT more convenient to have someone already having done it. But all of the rules, conditions, and automation are already included in the base srd-based ruleset that comes with the license.
The core rulebook also allows you to give your VTT a much more "Pathfinderized" look- complete with goblins.
You definitely do not need the official Bestiary, although it does have all the tokens and images of the monsters, and all the spells/spell like abilities parsed out so you can drag "cast" over the target(s) and force a save, click the link to get the spells description, etc.---the Adventure Path files do this for all the encounters included-------so you might need to do so for any encounters you add, but not for the ones in the AP.
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Actually PFS play works well. Generally people make their characters on thier copy of FG and import them straight into the scenario. The GMs also tend to have a stash of the pre-gens made up too for people trying it out.
Paizo was nice enough to allow copy of the prep work so when someone runs a scenario they can then send the files on to others running it later (after showing a proof of purchase).
I would have about 50 PFS credits from my FG runs.
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If it's unimaginable to you, then you probably don't have any financial worries. Not everyone has all the money they need for all their hobbies.I can't for the life of me understand why this content isn't more popular than it already is.
<snip>
If it's possible for a player to enjoy a game in Fantasy Grounds I have a hard time understanding any reasons why they don't. They just don't seem legitimate.
There isn't a huge paywall. There's a lot of games being run on the Ultimate license, which requires $0 from the players. In general, the online PF community balks at playing any VTT other than Roll20, at any pay level. Most the time, people assume it will cost them a lot of money when in reality to play it's generally free and to GM very little.
People also often mention "buying their books twice". Nobody is buying a book twice. Nothing prevents someone from launching Fantasy Grounds, opening their book, prepping their game off the book, and then running it in Fantasy Grounds. However, there's also the option of going straight to launch Fantasy Grounds > play. Smiteworks has these really great professional modules prepped. What's better, if you already have the PDF, they give you a very generous discount.
I've actually prepped several modules in Fantasy Grounds, such as the first book of Skull & Shackles. For the people that think they're purchasing content twice and it's unfair, I invite them to sit down and parse an adventure into a module before they're able to play it. Then try playing one that Fantasy Grounds has prepped. They will instantly understand what they're paying for and it's not "the book twice". They're not just sending you another copy of the PDF.
TL;DR - I hear these two a lot. The "it's too expensive" argument holds very little water - a cursory examination will show many games that can be played for nothing. The "I won't buy my books twice" argument is gibberish. I myself have built my own modules for free or used ones others have built, GM's do it every day.
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There being a lot of games run on the ultimate license does not mean the game they want to play is one of them. Many GMs are very altruistic, but not all of them are going to suit the player trying to join. Please do not generalize your specific situation to the community. It often turns out flawed. There are legitimate barriers to some people joining a new VTT.
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FG does have messy UI and requires either GM(to get ultimate license) or players(to get normal license) to invest money. Roll20's UI is at least simple even if you have to do things manually.
Though I wouldn't be surprised if some people actually prefer doing it manually, I mean, with automation you have to trust that the system is doing calculation right instead of trusting the player.
Roll20 is also browser based, so it doesn't have step of downloading app either. Basically, more steps(paying money, learning system, downloading the program, etc) there are, harder it is for players to try out the new thing.
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There being a lot of games run on the ultimate license does not mean the game they want to play is one of them. Many GMs are very altruistic, but not all of them are going to suit the player trying to join. Please do not generalize your specific situation to the community. It often turns out flawed. There are legitimate barriers to some people joining a new VTT.
You're right, and that's true. From my specific situation I don't validate or understand those excuses, but I think that what you said here, basically "not enough games", is probably a more legitimate and simple excuse that will be eliminated with more exposure and popularity (I hope).
I suppose the issue for me is that I bought all the products from my FLGS to support them, so I get no discount at all, which means essentially paying for my entire collection of books again in order to run those games on FG.
You don't need to buy your entire collection of books again. You can run games just fine having only bought the base software. There are plenty of community-created modules with loads of Pathfinder content in (thanks to the OGL), and you can add your own material with a little work. You don't even need to buy the Fantasy Grounds version of an AP in order to run it - I ran a whole AP myself while only owning the base software. All that needs is some time from you to put the necessary material into FG before the next session.
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I suppose the issue for me is that I bought all the products from my FLGS to support them, so I get no discount at all, which means essentially paying for my entire collection of books again in order to run those games on FG.You don't need to buy your entire collection of books again. You can run games just fine having only bought the base software. There are plenty of community-created modules with loads of Pathfinder content in (thanks to the OGL), and you can add your own material with a little work. You don't even need to buy the Fantasy Grounds version of an AP in order to run it - I ran a whole AP myself while only owning the base software. All that needs is some time from you to put the necessary material into FG before the next session.
I think they meant if they wanted to use FG's modules. I mean, you can fill things in roll20 as well just as I've been doing since I can't pay Paizo to do that for me :p I have no clue how hard it is to fill stuff in FG, but its not that hard in roll20 at least, so it isn't really selling point for FG "oh, you don't need to buy paizo's material in FG, you can just manually fill them in!" when conversation topic is about whether its worth buying FG's paizo materials.
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Quick question, I currently GM using a TV table top and I use my laptop for the GM info (Roll20, Realm Works and Hero labs) and the TV Table as a second monitor, hooked up to the laptop, is where I display the player board/map. I use two roll20 sessions/accounts to accomplish this. Being a download, can I have a player and a GM session running on the same machine with fantasy grounds?
Quick question, I currently GM using a TV table top and I use my laptop for the GM info (Roll20, Realm Works and Hero labs) and the TV Table as a second monitor, hooked up to the laptop, is where I display the player board/map. I use two roll20 sessions/accounts to accomplish this. Being a download, can I have a player and a GM session running on the same machine with fantasy grounds?
Yes, you can have two separate instances of Fantasy Grounds running on the same machine, one as GM and one as a player, connected to the GM's session. Many people use FG for face-to-face games, and there are several detailed discussions about this on the FG forum.
I think they meant if they wanted to use FG's modules.I suppose the issue for me is that I bought all the products from my FLGS to support them, so I get no discount at all, which means essentially paying for my entire collection of books again in order to run those games on FG.You don't need to buy your entire collection of books again. You can run games just fine having only bought the base software. There are plenty of community-created modules with loads of Pathfinder content in (thanks to the OGL), and you can add your own material with a little work. You don't even need to buy the Fantasy Grounds version of an AP in order to run it - I ran a whole AP myself while only owning the base software. All that needs is some time from you to put the necessary material into FG before the next session.
Possibly, but it's still not true that they need to buy their entire collection of books again in order to run games on FG. They can simply buy the AP that they want to run.
There's also the added fact that you can import PCGen characters into FG without requiring a license or sub, the caviate being that casters will have to rebuild their spell lists.
Yes forum thread
And PCGen's instructions. forum thread
I think they meant if they wanted to use FG's modules. I mean, you can fill things in roll20 as well just as I've been doing since I can't pay Paizo to do that for me :p I have no clue how hard it is to fill stuff in FG, but its not that hard in roll20 at least, so it isn't really selling point for FG "oh, you don't need to buy paizo's material in FG, you can just manually fill them in!" when conversation topic is about whether its worth buying FG's paizo materials.I suppose the issue for me is that I bought all the products from my FLGS to support them, so I get no discount at all, which means essentially paying for my entire collection of books again in order to run those games on FG.You don't need to buy your entire collection of books again. You can run games just fine having only bought the base software. There are plenty of community-created modules with loads of Pathfinder content in (thanks to the OGL), and you can add your own material with a little work. You don't even need to buy the Fantasy Grounds version of an AP in order to run it - I ran a whole AP myself while only owning the base software. All that needs is some time from you to put the necessary material into FG before the next session.
This is exactly what I was trying to say. If my option is to either pay full price for all of this content again or simply input the content manually on either Roll20 or FG, then what is the advantage of FG compared to Roll20 to me? Especially since I tend to modify campaigns by adding additional content, swapping out monsters for stuff I feel is more thematically appropriate (especially for older APs that rely heavily on just Bestiary 1 content) and generally make enough edits that even with the pre-made content, I'm still going to have hours worth of prep work to do.
Now, if I could get reduced cost for the assets based on buying the books from my FLGS, that might be enough to get me to at least look at FG. If the content were offered on Roll20, and I wasn't going to have to learn a whole new VTT just to use it, I might even pay full price for stuff I know I would get a benefit from. But having to pay full price and learn a new VTT for something that won't even eliminate more than about half of my prep work is just too steep to be worth it to me. I am 100% glad that it's worth it to others though. GMing is a tough job, and anything that makes it easier gets the thumbs up from me.
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what is the advantage of FG compared to Roll20 to me?
Like Killgore said, and this is purely the opinion of someone who has used both VTT's and made a choice - FG is the better VTT for numerous reasons. You don't have to take our word for it as we're extremely biased, just try it out and make a decision for yourself.
Personally, I like Roll20 a lot. My intent isn't to discredit or take away from Roll20 in any way, only to get more attention for Fantasy Grounds which I think is underappreciated and underutilized.
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This is exactly what I was trying to say. If my option is to either pay full price for all of this content again or simply input the content manually on either Roll20 or FG, then what is the advantage of FG compared to Roll20 to me? Especially since I tend to modify campaigns by adding additional content, swapping out monsters for stuff I feel is more thematically appropriate (especially for older APs that rely heavily on just Bestiary 1 content) and generally make enough edits that even with the pre-made content, I'm still going to have hours worth of prep work to do.Now, if I could get reduced cost for the assets based on buying the books from my FLGS, that might be enough to get me to at...
One: Content you load into FG (creatures, items, story, etc.) can be exported as a module (selecting whichever of these items you want to export, breaking down as suits you.) you can share with others and/or use in other campaigns you run. No need for entering things more than once. This feature has allowed many FG forum users to build modules you can download for free, with ogl content across the srd. Altering a creature is as simple as making a copy (drag and drop) and making the changes you want. All the bestiary creatures are able to be found on the FG boards as modules, many with spells populated (but probably not all) so you can use this work other people have done- without laying out an additional penny.
Two: Rules automation. So and so is invisible. Apply the invisible condition and the game knows to roll the 50% miss chance, etc.. Creature is blinded for 2 rounds? Apply blinded condition with a 2 round duration, and it'll apply the modifiers to that creature for two rounds and then remove it two rounds later. Casting Bless on the party? Official Ruleset will give you the modifiers, and if you target your party, will auto-calculate the duration based on your caster levels and apply to each party member. Did I mention it knows the stacking rules? Creature has DR 6/adamantine and you have an adamantine sword? Whatdayaknow, it bypasses for you. Creature has regen or fast healing? It heals up on its turn.
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I don't think you can share roll20 content with other users, but you can however at least with subscription transfer content between your own campaigns.
But yeah, consider that I don't think any campaign is intended to be run 100% RAW without GM modifying things to their likings, thats is actually good question. How much trouble it is to modify stuff in FG compared to roll20?
(can't really comment on rules automation since its not like Roll20 has much hard time without it. I mean, you can nowadays add buffs to PF's community sheet so you can just click when they are on and off so you don't need to do math in your head on how buffs affect your attack rolls :p Heck in general, lot of players seem to learn rather fast how to do macros even though I never bother using them)
My only real problem Fantasy Grounds is that I never really run monsters unmodified and my group generally doesn't like any pre-made adventure paths. So it's just about as much work to use Fantasy Grounds as it is to build macros for roll20.
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This Thread and This One hold links to most of the great things shared by the community that are extremely useful to run Pathfinder in FG.
Other extensions and modules may also be compatible with multiple rulesets.