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There are a lot of threads about solarians in combat with a lot of differencing opinions, math, and comparisons but one of the things that seems to be really missing from anyone's notice is the weirdness of how their skills and skill related class abilities work.
Am I the only one that has noticed that the solarian has a lot of skills and skill based class abilities but only have a 4+int mod for skill points?
Am I the only one that thinks this makes these class features DOA? or at least really hard to capitalize on?
Has anyone found a way to increase the efficiency of these class features while not ignoring how MAD this class is?
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Could you elaborate on your argument?
You'll never be a skill monkey with a Solarian, but Sidereal Influence allows you to be fairly consistent with a few checks at lower levels.
I think taking Intimidate and Sense Motive are solid choices for this class if your DM is flexible on what the '1 minute meditation' requirement entails.
Throwing an additional d6 to some potentially clutch social checks isn't what I'd call DOA.
I also am not sure what your complaint is, but yes others have complained about the number of skill ranks per level.
Sidereal influence is your only class boost to skills and can’t be used during combat which can be a pretty big limitation. You will also need to figure out which you are interested in since not all of them are automatically class skills.
Of the Graviton skills, Bluff and Disguise are not automatically class skills. For the Photon skills it is Culture, Medicine and Survival.
You can up two of these skills with Skill Adept and another could be picked up by carefully choosing your theme or any skill if you go themeless. Even if you do that, there will be skills that are not class skills.
That doesn’t make the Sidereal useless, you just get more benefit if you plan it out.
Regardless, Solarian’s will never be the best at skills.
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Could you elaborate on your argument?
there are 20 skills in total in the game so overall it is easier to gain a decent collection of skills in Star finder then it was in Pathfinder. however, out of those 20 skills, 9 of them can't be used untrained, so in order to benefit from them or even roll a check for them above 10, you have to have at least 1 rank in them.
Solarians have 10 base skills on their class list with a class ability that while granting them no bonuses does allow them to count 2 skills of their choice not on their class skill list as class skills, giving them a grand total of access to 12 skills. of the 10 skills remaining after the base 10 skills the Solarian class grants, 6 of them are trained only skills. Meaning the 2 free skills you get to pick are going to be a hard pick unless you are focusing on a specific set of skills to the detriment of any others.
They later gain an ability to meditate for a 1 minute in order to bump one of their skills with a 1d6 for a period of time until certain conditions are met. However, this ability does not let them use ability untrained. 3 of the skills they can choose from are trained only skills meaning that if they want to take advantage of this class ability for those skills they have to have put ranks in it.
Now Solarians run on Charisma but realistically, your Cha isn't going to be much higher then 14 if even that high and that's if you are playing a race that grants a Cha bonus. The fact that you are inherently a front line fighter means that you will have to contribute a certain level of attribute points to Strength, dexterity, and constitution. The solarian in combat is going to function a lot like a pathfinder melee monk or inquisitor where you are capable of doing damage and taking (some) damage but you are also going to feel every single fight you get into and in all likelihood are going to end a number of fights unconscious/dying.
Because of this, your actual ability to run Cha based skills are going to run short of any Envoy you cross paths with. Other skills are going to be hampered by a lack of INT or WIS because attribute points are so important to place elsewhere. Skills that are not STR, DEX, or CHA based are traps basically. You have so few skill points that you are talking about a hyper focusing of skills that at best, you are going to be mediocre at. While your combat abilities are capable of tracking with other classes, you are not going to excel at them. The Envoy and Operative far outpace you in skill monkey abilities, which is fine except that you have 2 dedicated class abilities aimed towards skills. One of those abilities is aimed at granting more access to skills.
There is nothing in your class description of the point buy system that makes improving intelligence a wise choice over a physical attribute or Cha. Because you only get effectively 4 (5 if you are human) skill points each level, you basically gain impressive access with no way to really make it count. You also only really gain a minor boost to a single skill at a time at later levels.
I just feel like the Solarian should of at least had 2 more skill points per level or a class feature that basically gave them skill focus in any skill they had ranks in in order to make sense with what class features are present and the theme/flavor text of the class description.....
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I haven't played one yet, but I've rolled up a bunch of Solarians and I think they feel the scarcity of stat points more than any other class. They really need to have decent stats in a lot of different areas. Soldiers suck at skills too, but they don't have as much pressure on their stats and they can afford to bump their starting Intelligence up to 12. I also think it makes it VERY hard to make a viable Solarian with some races.
I do think the Sidereal Influence is a very solid skill boost and it should be pretty easy to pull off most of the time, but I also think Solarians would be a lot more fun to play if they had the base 6 skill points.
TL/DR: Solarians are not going to be the masters at any skill. Other classes are built for that.
Yes, Solarians need to focus their skills in almost all cases. It is that way for pretty much all the classes. The skill DCs on many things climb at 1.5 * level so splitting your skill ranks means you will have two skills that you are not very good at.
The class is not set up to be the best at any skill. Other classes have an insight bonus that is better than the Sidereal Influence. If you want to be best at a set of skills, go Envoy, Mechanic, Technomancer or Operative. Each of those classes have a set of skills at which they excel. With the Operative getting Operative’s Edge, they are going to out perform a Solarian on any skill they want to.
If you want to aid others on skills, you probably want to look at the Spacefarer theme (Jack of All Trades) or (if looking to be Captain on a ship) Ace Pilot. Those give you a shot at successfully performing an Aid Another without investment of skill ranks.
Having said that, I will say they are better at skills than the only other full BAB class — the Soldier.
Skill Focus doesn't sound like what you want, particularly since it would overlap with Sidereal Influence. I think this is more up your alley:
Skill Adept: A Solarian gains Skill Synergy as a bonus feat instead.
Sidereal Influence: A selected skill lets you make untrained checks with that skill as if you were trained, while under the relevant Sidereal Influence. Add Perception, Sleight of Hand, and Piloting to Photon Skills; add Acrobatics, Athletics, and Physical Science to Graviton Skills.
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Solarions definitely have more potential than Soldiers do in the skill department. But on the other hand Soldiers have the advantage of getting their primary stat in STR or DEX (the only class that gets a choice); whereas Solarians have to have CHA. If it is really important to you to have a clever soldier you have the flexibility to bump that INT up a little bit, but its hard being flexible with the Solarion. I still think they're a strong class but if I had the option to house rule it, I would probably let them have 6 ranks.
The way the stat increases work do benefit Solarions quite a bit. I think the first four levels are tough because you've been forced to make some tough choices stat wise but getting to boost four stats will provide some relief. If you get them up to 20, you'll obviously focus on boosting STR/DEX and CHA, but will probably end up putting a stat boost in every single stat at least once.
Quick Points:
-Solarians have a great skill list, especially with two choices.
-Clerics and Paladins in PF had great skill lists too, and even fewer skill points. Was that an issue?
-Sidereal Influence is weak, and the second choice comes pretty late. It's often better to take Skill Focus instead given SI's limitations & variability. This feels like a tacked on ability.
-Most Solarian builds can't afford any boost to Int to get those good skills or pump the Int ones.
-Many Solarian builds can't afford a boost to Wis, which two of the best skills use: Mysticism & Perception.
-Most Solarian builds have Cha as their second or even third stat.
-Str & Con aren't important for skills and Dex will lag behind much of the party.
-Soldiers can afford Int (especially a longarm Soldier) and have the bonus feats to take Skill Focus or Skill Synergy with little cost.
So yep, it seems Solarians are made to have a few crucial skills to (perhaps) shore up weaknesses in the party, but not to excel at them due to lack of bonuses and supporting stats. The exception might be face skills, but Envoys (even some Operatives & Mystics) are notably superior so it still seems like a patch for a party without a dedicated face.
The question is, why is this backup skill role so bad in the larger picture?
Solarians can compete for tops in damage, durability, & defense. They have a plethora of tricks to choose from, making them quite versatile on the battlefield. Do they really need the versatility that being better at skills would add? As starved for skills as I feel when I build a Solarian, I can't say I've ever felt the class deserved more.
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The question is, why is this backup skill role so bad in the larger picture?
Solarians can compete for tops in damage, durability, & defense. They have a plethora of tricks to choose from, making them quite versatile on the battlefield. Do they really need the versatility that being better at skills would add? As starved for skills as I feel when I build a Solarian, I can't say I've ever felt the class deserved more.
I'm not saying the skill thing is bad per se although, I do feel like it is an odd limiting factor considering some of their class abilities and the flavor of the class.
And yes Solarians can compete in combat as top contenders but I would argue that they are significantly more difficult to build and maintain to be and stay competitive then any other class in the game. As many of the other classes are not as MAD and far more forgiving in attribute point distribution.
6 ranks would fit the skill curve the other classes have a lot better, but it's not the end of the world either way.
Oh I'm not saying it is the end of the world, it just really bothers me. Flavor wise and somewhat mechanic wise there seems to be this leaning towards "skills and learning and blah, blah, blah" but then the foundation mechanics of the class (skills points available or something that let them use train only skills untrained or something) just falls flat
There are a lot of threads about solarians in combat with a lot of differencing opinions, math, and comparisons but one of the things that seems to be really missing from anyone's notice is the weirdness of how their skills and skill related class abilities work.
Am I the only one that has noticed that the solarian has a lot of skills and skill based class abilities but only have a 4+int mod for skill points?
Am I the only one that thinks this makes these class features DOA? or at least really hard to capitalize on?
Has anyone found a way to increase the efficiency of these class features while not ignoring how MAD this class is?
Very good at some skills. If you want to be good at those skills you have the option. Otherwise you are free to ignore those bonuses.