The out for a Paladin of Abadar dealing with legal slavery (or various other legalized evil) is the "if a system is fundamentally flawed, I will work to aid citizens by reforming or replacing it." part.Oh I entirely get that, I really do. But you are ignoring an evil that your Deity of choice is actually not inherently against. But Abadar is one of those weird Deities where a Paladin could legally smite a Cleric of his own religion, so take that for the grain of salt it's worth as well.Church law forbids clergy from
attacking each other, regardless of political, national, or
financial motivations, as warfare creates instability and
chips away at the foundations of civilization.
Moral differences (or in this case deeply diverging ideas on what 'civilization' means) isn't as constrained. That's a scenario that if I was DMing I'd have to take all the factors into account like wider effects, treatment of slaves, moral precedents presented by both parties ect to see if it qualifies.
But that's me liking interesting narratives. Conflicts within an organization where there is no divine "You're wrong" is good narrative. And like we've said here several times morality is a very grey area. Two Paladins of different deities can be so wildly different you'd never suspect they were of the same alignment. Two different alignments in the same clergy where one is doing something considered by the other to be regressive to civilization (their core tenant) would certainly be justification for a conflict to be outside Abadar's normal church law.
Aka: Speed bump, not a barricade.
It's exactly the opposite. The only deity I'd consider for playing a Paladin is Ragathiel. Kill, maim, burn, torch the villages, eviscerate children whose parents ping as evil, cast atonement, blow up some goblin orphanages, rinse, repeat, call the Internet Police on any power-crazy GM who would dare to say that my interpretation of LG and Raggy's code is in any way wrong.But basically, just kill everything, Ragathiel will sort the good from bad over at his place. Then kill Dispater, kill all Evil and Neutral gods and maybe, *maybe* spare some Good deities who actually understand that winning the battle against evil requires omnicide.
Wow, that is so far away from Ragathiel AND from Lawful Good that I'm not sure what phrases would describe it other than "savagely Chaotic Evil murder-hobo" or "intentionally ruining the game and should be told to leave".
Have you even read ANYTHING about Ragathiel? I'm assuming you haven't, so I'll post some of it here:
"The paladins of Ragathiel are shining beacons of furious resolve on the battlefield, and they are careful stewards of valor everywhere. These paladins disproportionately come from cultures that are typically hostile to paladin training, including those of half-orcs, hobgoblins, Gebbites, and the Nidalese."
"Those proven guilty must be punished for their crimes. I will not turn a blind eye to wrongdoing."
"Rage is a virtue and a strength only when focused against the deserving. I will never seek disproportionate retribution."
"Redemption finds hearts from even the cruelest origins. I will strive not to act upon prejudice against fellow mortals based on race or origin."By the way, Ragathiel doesn't do the sorting out after the fact. That's Pharasma.
I think the poat you were replying to was supposed to be a joke . . . .
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By the same token, you bear even more responsibility to not set the stage for such a thing in the first place.
Absolutely. I love paladins, and while I think that part of their appeal is that there is not the easy way out of some situations because of their code of conduct and their alignment restrictions, I do hate it with a vengeance if the GM uses that to give the player of said paladin a hard time over it.
Apart from that (and a bit more on topic), I actually love that in Golarion it is possible to play paladins with such a different outlook on life. From Erastil to Iomedae, there are so many interesting choices and if it challenges the players (and GMs) view on how to use this class, I'm all for it.
It's exactly the opposite. The only deity I'd consider for playing a Paladin is Ragathiel. Kill, maim, burn, torch the villages, eviscerate children whose parents ping as evil, cast atonement, blow up some goblin orphanages, rinse, repeat, call the Internet Police on any power-crazy GM who would dare to say that my interpretation of LG and Raggy's code is in any way wrong.But basically, just kill everything, Ragathiel will sort the good from bad over at his place. Then kill Dispater, kill all Evil and Neutral gods and maybe, *maybe* spare some Good deities who actually understand that winning the battle against evil requires omnicide.
Wow, that is so far away from Ragathiel AND from Lawful Good that I'm not sure what phrases would describe it other than "savagely Chaotic Evil murder-hobo" or "intentionally ruining the game and should be told to leave".
Have you even read ANYTHING about Ragathiel? I'm assuming you haven't, so I'll post some of it here:
"The paladins of Ragathiel are shining beacons of furious resolve on the battlefield, and they are careful stewards of valor everywhere. These paladins disproportionately come from cultures that are typically hostile to paladin training, including those of half-orcs, hobgoblins, Gebbites, and the Nidalese."
"Those proven guilty must be punished for their crimes. I will not turn a blind eye to wrongdoing."
"Rage is a virtue and a strength only when focused against the deserving. I will never seek disproportionate retribution."
"Redemption finds hearts from even the cruelest origins. I will strive not to act upon prejudice against fellow mortals based on race or origin."By the way, Ragathiel doesn't do the sorting out after the fact. That's Pharasma.
I think the poat you were replying to was supposed to be a joke . . . .
This is a discussion thread, and there are people out there who would actually believe that "interpretation" of Ragathiel.
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Lack of a published code doesn't mean that the deity doesn't have paladins. This is especially true for gods with smaller amounts of followers. Pretty much any LG, LN or NG deity (demi-gods included) could be interesting as a Paladin build. Coming up with a variant of the default code is something that the player and GM should do together. Though collecting all of them (and some suggested homebrew ones for gods without a published code) in one place might be a good idea.
