| HWalsh |
I prefer to make it a general thing. That has the same effect on Solarians, and also allows concepts like a charming and likable Soldier or Technomancer to be more mechanically viable, which I like.
A charming and likable Soldier is already viable.
01: 10/18/12/10/12/10
05: 10/19/14/10/14/12
10: 10/20/16/10/16/14
15: 10/21/18/10/18/16
20: 10/22/18/12/18/18
Maxed resolve, saves, attack, and charisma. Though, granted, if they try to go melee, they do, indeed, have to make some sacrifices (Not quite the same ones as Solarians, but they have to make them if they also want Charisma I guess. The main difference is the Melee Solarian has no choice unless they want to sacrifice DCs and Resolve...)
You are correct, the likeable Technomancer does need the boost, as their primary build really can't max everything and get charisma. So yeah, they should have access too.
| Waterhammer |
What if you could buy Charisma at a 2 for 1 basis? At least for the first point.
Then you could afford to make a relatively charismatic character without sacrificing more important abilities.
| Tatavath |
stats as they stand right now are very clearly dex>>str>wis,int>con>chr in a skill relevant game as skills go down in value int,wis and chr all drop. dex>>str>>con,wis,int>>chr is what in most cases that would look like. now if we just remove initiative from dex its value drops some to
dex>str>wis,int>con>chr and dex>str>>con,wis,int>>chr respectively which clearly is a bit better but removing wis to will and adding it to chr basically just swaps there places and done nothing to fix the problem, hell even adding initiative to any of the mental stats only bumps them up one tier not really fixing the problem.
Simply adding chr mod to current RP is really not that bad, at low level and gets less value with levels but that is fine. we end up with something like dex>str>wis,int>con,chr and dex>str>>con,wis,int,chr with both the initiative change and the RP bonus.
At this point i would like to not that con only kind of sucks because of the common or lack there of of common fortitude saves in the current starfinder as fortitude goes up con goes up in value a lot. say for example that fortitude was as common as will saves then we are looking at a system thats like dex>str>con,int,wis>chr and dex>str>con>wis,int,chr which is not really that bad.
also dex takes quite a hit if we lower the prevalence of reflex saves just a bit(like 10-20%) we see dex>str>con,int,wis>chr where the step between dex and str is more of a half step. and if we added the initiative to the weakest stat(chr) we get to like a 3 tier system of something like dex>str>chr,con,int,wis, as long as skills matter quite a bit. now chr getting initiative is mechanically strong but makes no sense thematically so that is a problem.
Im sure you can bring them all closer then this but most of the problem at this point is that what do you give them? like the logic of things starts to break down at this point. simple things that might work are combining skills, this weakens Int a bit but over all strengthens the skills that are effected. also this is looking at things in a black box, the more people that have heavy armor the less dex>str and the more str>dex.
But if this is mostly just about solarsians and chr as there primary stat just swap it to constitution and like half the problem goes away, yes con is much weaker then it was in pathfinder but its still a stat that they want and they go from being 4 stated to 3 stated nearly instantly with that simple change.
| Joel_Anderson |
Still reading through the book, so just throwing out some general ideas
Personally don't like the idea of Wisdom replacing Dexterity for Initiative checks, doesn't make sense to me. It seems good to me. Wisdom is the awareness, which allows to start reacting quicker(Acting in a Surprise Round), while Dexterity is how fast you react once you are aware(the Initiative).
I like the idea of Charisma replacing Wisdom for Will saves, as I attribute Charisma to 'force of personality,' so you're counteracting someone's attempt to influence it, with the force of it. Wisdom is more general awareness.
The main problem with Charisma is that it's not a stat stat. It's more of a qualitative than quantitative attribute, and it relates directly to how we play our character. We don't roll Charisma skill checks between PCs because that would be one sided to the guy who decided Cha wasn't a dump stat. We roleplay out our interactions. Someone mentioned earlier that it is up to the GM to increase Cha importance through the situations they're put in, and I agree. Cha should mainly affect PC-NPC interactions. I really like the idea of group social checks so that somebody doesn't do something wrong. But, GMs could apply Cha to change the story, an immeasurable, yet interesting effect, as well as character backstories. I'm going to pick on the soldier a bit because it seems like the classic Cha dump. You want your soldier to be a badass on the field, but he could be socially inept and not even know it. In a military setting, it could keep him from getting promoted, because nobody likes him. Yeah, he's strong on the field, but people consider him more of a meat shield than a comrade. They don't want to hang out with them outside of work, could think he's a blowhard/gloryhound, etc, etc. Let the player play how he wants to play the character, but the Cha could really affect how NPCs can perceive them.
On a more stat basis, I'd rework the Intimidate rules somehow so that Charisma plays a more significant role in defending against an Intimidation check. That Shaken condition that can be applied to a PC can really mess them up. In addition, perhaps add a Leadership skill, or a feat tree that could add certain benefits in combat/social situations. For example, removing Shaken, reducing terrified, coordinating attacks for improved tactical options. I think it would be really cool to have some sort of leadership/telepathy combo to help someone else with a will save. Don't know if this would step on Envoy's toes though, sooooo, maybe.
Solarian seems to be having some problems from what I'm reading here.... Well, an option that pops out to me is, why not simply add to the Solarian weapon feature that they may use Charisma instead of Strength when adding damage? Would allow the Solarian to focus more in the Cha stat, reduce the ability spread, and provide a competitive edge to lower levels that phases out at higher levels when someone said Solarian damage gets better. Similarly, with the armor, use Charisma instead of Dex for AC.