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Because even in a game of rules and "game mechanics", there is a modicum of common sense regarding the meaning of certain terms such as dead.
If a player insisted that their dead character has actions because the rules do not specifically state that they cannot take an action, then they would be laughed away from the table, or at least away from my table.
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there is a lot you're missing.
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Because even in a game of rules and "game mechanics", there is a modicum of common sense regarding the meaning of certain terms such as dead.
If a player insisted that their dead character has actions because the rules do not specifically state that they cannot take an action, then they would be laughed away from the table, or at least away from my table.
RAW says that rules apply because they are rules, not because they make sense. Trying to make sense of them is technically a House Rule.
RAW says that rules apply because they are rules, not because they make sense. Trying to make sense of them is technically a House Rule.Because even in a game of rules and "game mechanics", there is a modicum of common sense regarding the meaning of certain terms such as dead.
If a player insisted that their dead character has actions because the rules do not specifically state that they cannot take an action, then they would be laughed away from the table, or at least away from my table.
That is not true. The developer have said that they expect players to read the rules and apply them in context.
No dev has ever said the most literal reading of the rules is the best way, and to ignore all context or common sense.What you are linking to is someone saying you have to follow that rule because that is how Paizo wants it to be done.
To equate it to RAW is a false equivalency, and since all words must be interpreted there is really no such thing as RAW. Even something as simple as weapon focus needs interpretation. It is just that some things are generally more easy to interpret than others.
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Because even in a game of rules and "game mechanics", there is a modicum of common sense regarding the meaning of certain terms such as dead.
The rulebooks have other gaps that have to be covered by common sense. For example, the equipment chapter in the Core Rulebook describes the prices for buying equipment, but does not mention that the character needs a merchant or store from which to purchase the equipment. The details about stores are left to the campaign, not the rules.
The rulebook does not have the space to define every word from scratch. Its glossary covers the ambiguous conditions, such as the difference between fatigued and exhausted, and how to interpret conditions in numerical penalties. Death does not need any numbers nor clarification. Dead is dead. The only special cases are undead, which has its own description under monster rules, and resurrection, which fills up most of the entry titled "Dead" in the glossary.
The glossary has an entry on "Dying" that states a dying creature can take no actions. That is because it is ambiguous. Movies and stories have lots of cases of dying people who recite last words or write their murder's name in blood or find new inner strength to stop dying and fight on. The rulebook clarifies that Pathfinder does not allow this.
You can't really skip out on the dying condition.
If your hit point total is negative, but not equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you're dying.
In case it matters, a dead character, no matter how he died, has hit points equal to or less than his negative Constitution score.
RAW says that rules apply because they are rules, not because they make sense. Trying to make sense of them is technically a House Rule.Because even in a game of rules and "game mechanics", there is a modicum of common sense regarding the meaning of certain terms such as dead.
If a player insisted that their dead character has actions because the rules do not specifically state that they cannot take an action, then they would be laughed away from the table, or at least away from my table.
That is not true. The developer have said that they expect players to read the rules and apply them in context.
No dev has ever said the most literal reading of the rules is the best way, and to ignore all context or common sense.What you are linking to is someone saying you have to follow that rule because that is how Paizo wants it to be done.
To equate it to RAW is a false equivalency, and since all words must be interpreted there is really no such thing as RAW. Even something as simple as weapon focus needs interpretation. It is just that some things are generally more easy to interpret than others.
Hey, neat -- You made a RAW argument against my RAI claim to support RAW, in essence making a RAW argument (by contradiction) for RAI.
I feel comfortable that we've come to an agreement somewhere in there.
RAW says that rules apply because they are rules, not because they make sense. Trying to make sense of them is technically a House Rule.Because even in a game of rules and "game mechanics", there is a modicum of common sense regarding the meaning of certain terms such as dead.
If a player insisted that their dead character has actions because the rules do not specifically state that they cannot take an action, then they would be laughed away from the table, or at least away from my table.
How did I know that would link to a PFS thread....
Well, RAW arguments are pretty meaningless in a non-PFS environment, so it was a safe bet.
Well, RAW arguments are pretty meaningless in a non-PFS environment, so it was a safe bet.
And yet....
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Well, RAW arguments are pretty meaningless in a non-PFS environment, so it was a safe bet.
They're pretty meaningless when they hit a PFS environment too
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You are not missing anything, it's an old joke. Death is mainly flavor text, it has few specific mechanical effects.
Hence proving the profound fallacy of using trivializing terms such as "flavor text" to refer to that which is actually the foundation of the game. Mechanics serve to make the game happen, but they are not the game itself.
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Nowhere in the Dead condition is it written, that you can no longer take any action, while conditions like Paralyzed call this fact out.
Sure you can become Dying and it probably still applies in a natural course of action (hit point damage>dying>dead), but there are plenty instant-death effects that skip right to Dead right past the Dying part.
Unless there's something I'm missing...?
Hmm, while it's advice about GMing and not directly a rule, I find the intent clear:
Handling PC Death: Eventually, through bad luck or bad tactics, a player character is going to die in your game. Other events, such as petrification, paralysis, sleep, and stunning can have a similar effect on the game as PC death, and the following advice should apply to those effects as well. When a PC dies, his player no longer has any input into the game
When a PC dies, his player no longer has any input into the game
Okay, that's clear. But the Raise Dead spell stipulates a soul must be "willing to return". So... who makes that decision then?
Is a dead PC's soul an NPC?
Would be easier to just change the wording in ressurect et.al. to allow the special action on behalf of a dead pc.
Would be easier if we didn't dive down rabbit holes like this.
We know the rules aren't perfect, or this forum would not exist.
Of course you can take actions.
You can make a save against speak with dead.
Raise dead.
And there's the ever popular decompose action.
^-^
Isn't decompose one of those full day actions?
We musn't forget the "Nourish Scavenger" action for those more giving dead folk.
you can have fun exploring the afterlife.
You can't really skip out on the dying condition.
If your hit point total is negative, but not equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you're dying.In case it matters, a dead character, no matter how he died, has hit points equal to or less than his negative Constitution score.You know, this means that when you are dead, you are no longer dying. (dying is -con<x<0, dead is x<=-con)
So you get right back up as soon as you hit -con.
you mean -con + 1
One of the advantages of being dead is that after 3 hours you unlock the Rigor Mortis feat.
(Credit to Impus Major for that one.)
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I think we're all Trolls in this thread. ;-)
I think we're all Trolls in this thread. ;-)
"ey Don't ye be messin with da Voodoo!