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Orcs and Goblinoids tend to get the short end of the development stick. If they have any societies, they tend not to be nice ones and life as an Orc (or Goblinoid) is usually nasty, brutish, and short.
But it doesn't have to be. So in honor of the month I'm opening this thread for anyone that wants to try to create alternative Orcs or Goblinoids. The idea would be to treat them as if they are a PC race. I've taken the official description and altered it a bit:
Orcs are courageous, warlike, and honorable. They respect strength and power but also admire wit and song. On an almost instinctive level, orcs love a good challenge - whether mental or physical. When not in battle, they spend their time either farming or playing games of physical or mental prowess. Though they are willing to battle, they are not butchers and do not consider it to be honorable to fight someone weaker than them. Their bellicose yet honorable attitudes often confuse races around them who don't understand that, to an orc, a good fight is a way to make a great friend.
Physical Description: Powerfully built, orcs typically stand just a few inches taller than most humans but have much greater muscle mass, their broad shoulders and thick, brawny hips often giving them a slightly lurching gait. They typically have green skin, dark hair, reddish eyes, pointed ears, and protruding, tusk-like teeth. Males can grow beards, but tend to prefer stubble. This makes them look roguishly handsome. Females tend to have the same proportions as their male counterparts. This gives them an Amazonian physique. Orcs consider scars a mark of distinction but also enjoy detailed tattoos.
Society: Orcs usually live in farming or fishing villages. They settle disputes by fighting with specific types of fights depending on the nature of the dispute. Such fights rarely end in death, but the loser is expected to honor the results. Every year there is a competition involving tossing heavy object, balancing on logs in water, wrestling, and similar competitions. Besides the physical competitions there are also singing and story-telling competitions as well as other mental games. They keep their buildings in good condition and consider uncleanly conditions a sign of disrespect to the whole community.
Relations: Orcs admire both strength and wit and are willing to befriend other races. Their often overtly boisterous behavior and unwillingness to back down from a challenge, however, can cause issues at times.
Orcs like the hardihood and honor of dwarves but can't understand their stoic attitudes or love of things constantly remaining the same. They are particularly fond of dwarves when it comes to drinking games. Orcs tend to find elves too snobbish for their tastes. The fact that both elves and orcs can hybridize with humans is a matter of some speculation of a common origin - a topic orcs are particularly fond of bringing up around elves since it tends to make them squirm.
Orcs are fond of halflings and gnomes, appreciating the homely touches of the former and the free spirits of the latter, though they do sometimes find the halflings a bit too eager to settle down and the gnomes a bit too weird at times.
They are happy enough to live and work with or next to humans, and the number of half-orcs testifies to this. They tend to treat half-orcs much as they treat other full orcs. They have a special fascination with half-elves and wonder what connection it implies between themselves, elves, and humans.
Alignment and Religion: Orcs are both honorable and somewhat aggressive, brave and loyal. They tend towards neither chaos nor law, but their honor and loyalty usually outweigh their more warlike ways, so they also tend towards good. Orcs tend to have shamanistic or druidic traditions, but they also have specific deities of war, weather, strength, and fertility.
Adventurers: Most orcs tend to get a form of wanderlust around the time they start becoming adults. They are encouraged by their parents to go adventuring. Sometimes they will be part of raiding parties and sometimes part of exploring and trading parties. Other times they make their way across the land seeing new things and trying their strength. Most end up going back home richer, wiser, and stronger - thus strengthening their communities.
This is actually sort of how I've portrayed Hobgoblins since 1985, when I first began playing D&D. I imagined them looking very much like Klingons but in Oriental style armor (from the Monster Manual 1). I still run them like this. I really dislike the Paizo take on them, so I homebrewed them a bit to be more like the ones I always played. This is a great write up, one that I can use in my games with your permission.
This is actually sort of how I've portrayed Hobgoblins since 1985, when I first began playing D&D. I imagined them looking very much like Klingons but in Oriental style armor (from the Monster Manual 1). I still run them like this. I really dislike the Paizo take on them, so I homebrewed them a bit to be more like the ones I always played. This is a great write up, one that I can use in my games with your permission.
That's interesting! I'd love to know more if you want to share. I think of Hobgoblins as a sort of hirsute Elf thanks to the 3rd edition version of them. I'm glad you like the write up and please feel free to use it!
Here's my take on Hobgoblins in my homebrew setting of Nibiru:
HOBGOBLINS
In their own language they call themselves the Tolk Pat-Khal. Many people just refer to them as the Tolk, which some Hobgoblins take umbrage at. They are a proud and honorable people, once ruling much of northeastern Nehlas before the coming of the Ransoori, who in two great wars drove them across the sea to the northern islands which they call Nhat Ramuun, or “The Cold Lands”. Today they are still a proud and fierce people, but rather than raiding and conquering they now sail the seas all the way from the Cold Lands to the Amber Kingdoms as traders, pirates, and privateers. They are descended from the Khol-Ari far across the Great Eastern Ocean, but only they know the history of how they came to the continent of Nehlas, as well as the why and when. They remain tight-lipped about their forebears; though some sages believe they are descended from exiles who were forced to leave their ancestral lands on the huge continent of Avlonera.
Hobgoblins are tall, averaging 6’ with no differences between men and women in height, though the men are usually more muscular and slightly heavier. Theirs is an egalitarian society, where there is no difference in the duties of men or women. They have brown skin, blue eyes, and black hair, which they tend to wear in long queues, often with various items braided into them such as small gems or animal claws or teeth. Their most striking features are the catlike pupils in their sapphire eyes and the slightly raised ridges that run from above their eyebrows over their foreheads and under their hair. There seems to be no benefit to these and are perhaps vestigial in nature, serving an unknown purpose in their distant past. Among their traditions is an almost mythical method of training warriors in a particular type of “battle magic”. Practitioners are extremely rare among their own people today, and it’s virtually unheard of for an outsider to learn these ancient skills. In the eyes of some of the training schools (“Kiamangs”) teaching an outsider the Paths of War is a capital offense and subject to the teacher and pupils being hunted down and slain.
Hobgoblin Game Mechanics
+2 Dexterity, +2 Strength, -2 Wisdom: Hobgoblins are quick and strong but are prone to act before considering the consequences.
Medium size: Hobgoblins have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Both men and women average 6’ in height and weigh around 180 pounds, though the women are slightly less muscular and weigh closer to 160.
Normal Speed: A Hobgoblin’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision: Hobgoblins can see perfectly in the dark up to 60 feet.
Warrior Tradition: Hobgoblins still teach their children how to fight just as their ancestors did. A Hobgoblin character begins with either Improved Unarmed Strike or Improved Grapple as a free bonus feat.
Languages: All hobgoblins begin play speaking Hobgoblin and Trader’s Tongue.
Bonus Languages: Hobgoblins with high Intelligence scores can choose any language they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic.)
Goblins it is well-known are a scourge upon the land. They produce nothing of value and hunt the local wildlife into nonexistence. Additionally, they can't seem to resist the opportunity to harass or murder unsuspecting humans.
Physical Description: The typical goblin is roughly 4 feet tall and gangley. With their stooped posture and overly-long arms however, they seem much smaller than they actually are. Their heads are round and their hands and feet somewhat oversized. They have large, independently moveable, pointed ears that help to convey a wide range of emotions. Their mouths and eyes are large but they have small flat noses. They have skin the color of an angry bruise and milky yellowish eyes. Very few have any hair to speak of.
Clothing and ornamentation typically denote position of power or leadership with tribal leaders and shamans having the most coverings and baubles.
Society: Goblins are numerous, fecund and all but devoid of culture. In most cases the majority of a goblin tribe live in caves that open to the outside world usually in a remote area. They prefer to sleep in great heaps for warmth. The slightly more sophisticated leaders may have their own smaller cave-like rooms covered in animals skins. Goblins are rapacious hunters that prefer overwhelming numbers to organized strategies.
Relations:Goblins rarely get along with any neighbors they may have, including other goblin tribes. Competition is fierce, even with their own tribes. A clever but malicious nature asserts itself when the goblins encounter unsuspecting potential victims.
Goblins delight in tormenting and torturing creatures who are weaker or unprepared for their assault. Favored tactics when encountering a remote human pioneer's cabin include tossing a sack or two containing an enraged wild animal (such as a badger), a hornet's nest, or several poisonous snakes into he windows of the cabin and then falling upon the confused inhabitants as the exist the building in terror.
Others may begin a campaign of psychological torture on outlying farmsteads by mutilating livestock or pets in the dark of night for the humans to find in the morning.
Alignment and Religion: By far, goblins are chaotic and evil in the extreme, an occasional lawful evil leader will sometimes arise who can organize a tribe for a short time, but this is rare.
Adventures: Goblins who do not fit in are typically turned upon by their tribe. Very few live to an age where they can survive alone. Those that do are incapable of working with other races in a constructive manner.
Here's my take on Hobgoblins in my homebrew setting of Nibiru:
HOBGOBLINS
In their own language they call themselves the Tolk Pat-Khal. Many people just refer to them as the Tolk, which some Hobgoblins take umbrage at. They are a proud and honorable people, once ruling much of northeastern Nehlas before the coming of the Ransoori, who in two great wars drove them across the sea to the northern islands which they call Nhat Ramuun, or “The Cold Lands”. Today they are still a proud and fierce people, but rather than raiding and conquering they now sail the seas all the way from the Cold Lands to the Amber Kingdoms as traders, pirates, and privateers. They are descended from the Khol-Ari far across the Great Eastern Ocean, but only they know the history of how they came to the continent of Nehlas, as well as the why and when. They remain tight-lipped about their forebears; though some sages believe they are descended from exiles who were forced to leave their ancestral lands on the huge continent of Avlonera.Hobgoblins are tall, averaging 6’ with no differences between men and women in height, though the men are usually more muscular and slightly heavier. Theirs is an egalitarian society, where there is no difference in the duties of men or women. They have brown skin, blue eyes, and black hair, which they tend to wear in long queues, often with various items braided into them such as small gems or animal claws or teeth. Their most striking features are the catlike pupils in their sapphire eyes and the slightly raised ridges that run from above their eyebrows over their foreheads and under their hair. There seems to be no benefit to these and are perhaps vestigial in nature, serving an unknown purpose in their distant past. Among their traditions is an almost mythical method of training warriors in a particular type of “battle magic”. Practitioners are extremely rare among their own people today, and it’s virtually unheard of for an outsider to learn these ancient skills. In the eyes of some of the training schools (“Kiamangs”) teaching an outsider the Paths of War is a capital offense and subject to the teacher and pupils being hunted down and slain.
Hobgoblin Game Mechanics
+2 Dexterity, +2 Strength, -2 Wisdom: Hobgoblins are quick and strong but are prone to act before considering the consequences.
Medium size: Hobgoblins have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. Both men and women average 6’ in height and weigh around 180 pounds, though the women are slightly less muscular and weigh closer to 160.
Normal Speed: A Hobgoblin’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision: Hobgoblins can see perfectly in the dark up to 60 feet.
Warrior Tradition: Hobgoblins still teach their children how to fight just as their ancestors did. A Hobgoblin character begins with either Improved Unarmed Strike or Improved Grapple as a free bonus feat.
Languages: All hobgoblins begin play speaking Hobgoblin and Trader’s Tongue.
Bonus Languages: Hobgoblins with high Intelligence scores can choose any language they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic.)
This is really cool! It's very nice and flavorful! I particularly like the stilted eyes and battle magic. I'm curious if their ships and buildings are also oriental in design as well as what their religion (if any) may be.
Thanks! I'm glad you think so!
To be honest, I'd never given much though to what their ships looked like. I'll have to think about that.
My homebrew world goes back to 1991. I decided to do away with deities in most regions, with religious adherents adopting a "Path" of faith. They choose any two domains (they were called spheres then) they wish as long as they don't oppose each other, and base their beliefs around those. The Hobgoblins on the continent of Nehlas have been there long enough that they've adapted to this philosophy, leaving the worship of their old gods behind. And incidentally, in case you didn't catch it, the battle magic comes from Dreamscarred Press' "Path of War" series.
Thanks! I'm glad you think so!
To be honest, I'd never given much though to what their ships looked like. I'll have to think about that.
My homebrew world goes back to 1991. I decided to do away with deities in most regions, with religious adherents adopting a "Path" of faith. They choose any two domains (they were called spheres then) they wish as long as they don't oppose each other, and base their beliefs around those. The Hobgoblins on the continent of Nehlas have been there long enough that they've adapted to this philosophy, leaving the worship of their old gods behind. And incidentally, in case you didn't catch it, the battle magic comes from Dreamscarred Press' "Path of War" series.
If you get the chance I highly recommend checking out Chinese junk ships - they're very unique!
Ah, okay. That makes a lot of sense! I didn't catch than, but that's very cool!
I've honestly gone total 40k with Orks/goblins.
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Goblins (and their small kin) are a subset of the fungus-based Ork society, that grows in the ground as a result of releasing spores. There are no Half-Orcs, and the distinction between Orc and Goblin languages and culture don't exist. Additionally, there are thusly no "female" orks (and the orks that exist aren't really "male"; just "default.")
Orks brutalize goblins into slavery and fight for the hell of it, growing as they do so and brutalizing eachother as a way to gain control of enough orks to attack other cultures/civilizations (including others orks.)
They grow not only themselves, but entire ecosystems (their goblin slaves, their Squigs of various sorts, happenstance things like more mushrooms of a kind in the area, and of course.. more orks.)
I also mixed in some TES kind of lore, that they're basically Dwarven level artificers in the strength/quality of their stuff, but are extremely unwieldy/heavy. This allows me to suit them in some impressive armor/weapons without giving it to the party all the time.
This makes them distinctly different in how they approach life as their stable society is really just a build up for war and it makes their suicidal viking charges very in-line with their ecology.
They like things that are Orky ('Uge, tuff, stompy, smashy, and loud) and "infest" areas simply by being there; requiring a purposeful purging of Fire or Holy magic to get rid of.
Cooperation with Orks goes only as far as you can physically dominate them in Orky fashion, and as long as you pay them with precious metals or weapons to build an arsenal that they will assuredly use against you at some point if not killed beforehand.
They aren't dumb, but they are single minded in purpose. Their societies are brutal, violent, and barbaric in the extreme; with games among them easily resulting in death to the entertainment of their brethren. There is no loyalty other than to strength, and there is no society other than to advance war upon others.
_____________________
What can I say, I like the 40k take on orcs, and I am loathe to give it up. The lowliest ork I have is an Orc with Barbarian 3 or 4 on it, making them tough-per-dude; and when you see multiples (especially in Armor) they'll give you a good smashin' if you don't play it safe.
A blight upon the planet I tell you!
Ah, okay. That makes a lot of sense! I didn't catch than, but that's very cool!
If you get the chance I highly recommend checking out Chinese junk ships - they're very unique!
Ever hear of the ancient Chinese admiral Zheng He? He commanded an immense fleet of exploratory ships that traveled as far as Africa and Arabia trading goods back and forth. His flagship was 4 decks high and carried over 400 crew and soldiers. It was 120 meters long. There were ships that were entirely dedicated to treasure, feeding the immense number of crewman, and warships. It's pretty amazing. I could use the junk style ships that he used. Thanks!
In my homebrew, Orcs cannot interbreed with Humans. They are wandering nomads and raiders, using metal weapons when they can steal them through raids, otherwise they they use crude weapons made of wood or stone.
What I use for Half Orcs I renamed the Guti. While similar to Orcs in many ways as far as their lifestyle and beliefs are similar, they are still a distinct race from the Orcs. They are more sophisticated, having yearly gatherings where tribes gather from all over the realm to celebrate, fight, drink, feast, trade, worship, and perhaps most importantly, forge new weapons of war, as their wandering lifestyle makes that difficult. Calling one a "Half Orc" is sure to start a fight. They range from all across the Sing Grass Sea (the prairies) to the Pillars of Heaven (a mountain range based on the Rockies). Many tribes also wander the deserts of the southwest part of the continent, as well.
They are not green skinned. That's always bugged me. They do have dark brown to dark grey skin that that often cover in tattoos and warpaint, the designs of which can be very intricate. Ritual scarring is also very important to them.
Magic users are rare among them, witches being the primary arcane magicians. They are animists, worshiping the spirits of animals and in some tribes their ancestors. Clerics are virtually unheard of, but oracles and shamans abound.
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I've honestly gone total 40k with Orks/goblins.
____________________________________________
Goblins (and their small kin) are a subset of the fungus-based Ork society, that grows in the ground as a result of releasing spores. There are no Half-Orcs, and the distinction between Orc and Goblin languages and culture don't exist. Additionally, there are thusly no "female" orks (and the orks that exist aren't really "male"; just "default.")Orks brutalize goblins into slavery and fight for the hell of it, growing as they do so and brutalizing eachother as a way to gain control of enough orks to attack other cultures/civilizations (including others orks.)
They grow not only themselves, but entire ecosystems (their goblin slaves, their Squigs of various sorts, happenstance things like more mushrooms of a kind in the area, and of course.. more orks.)
I also mixed in some TES kind of lore, that they're basically Dwarven level artificers in the strength/quality of their stuff, but are extremely unwieldy/heavy. This allows me to suit them in some impressive armor/weapons without giving it to the party all the time.
This makes them distinctly different in how they approach life as their stable society is really just a build up for war and it makes their suicidal viking charges very in-line with their ecology.
They like things that are Orky ('Uge, tuff, stompy, smashy, and loud) and "infest" areas simply by being there; requiring a purposeful purging of Fire or Holy magic to get rid of.
Cooperation with Orks goes only as far as you can physically dominate them in Orky fashion, and as long as you pay them with precious metals or weapons to build an arsenal that they will assuredly use against you at some point if not killed beforehand.
They aren't dumb, but they are single minded in purpose. Their societies are brutal, violent, and barbaric in the extreme; with games among them easily resulting in death to the entertainment of their brethren. There is no loyalty other than to strength, and there there is no society other than to advance war upon others.
_____________________What can I say, I like the 40k take on orcs, and I am loathe to give it up. The lowliest ork I have is an Orc with Barbarian 3 or 4 on it, making them tough-per-dude; and when you see multiples (especially in Armor) they'll give you a good smashin' if you don't play it safe.
A blight upon the planet I tell you!
This is certainly an interesting take on Orcs and Goblins. They sound like fungis to be around - or is it 'the spore you know the spore you understand how little you know'?
Ever hear of the ancient Chinese admiral Zheng He? He commanded an immense fleet of exploratory ships that traveled as far as Africa and Arabia trading goods back and forth. His flagship was 4 decks high and carried over 400 crew and soldiers. It was 120 meters long. There were ships that were entirely dedicated to treasure, feeding the immense number of crewman, and warships. It's pretty amazing. I could use the junk style ships that he used. Thanks!
Yep, that's actually who I was thinking of when I made the suggestion. It seemed like it would fit pretty well with your hobgoblins.
In my homebrew, Orcs cannot interbreed with Humans. They are wandering nomads and raiders, using metal weapons when they can steal them through raids, otherwise they they use crude weapons made of wood or stone.
What I use for Half Orcs I renamed the Guti. While similar to Orcs in many ways as far as their lifestyle and beliefs are similar, they are still a distinct race from the Orcs. They are more sophisticated, having yearly gatherings where tribes gather from all over the realm to celebrate, fight, drink, feast, trade, worship, and perhaps most importantly, forge new weapons of war, as their wandering lifestyle makes that difficult. Calling one a "Half Orc" is sure to start a fight. They range from all across the Sing Grass Sea (the prairies) to the Pillars of Heaven (a mountain range based on the Rockies). Many tribes also wander the deserts of the southwest part of the continent, as well.
They are not green skinned. That's always bugged me. They do have dark brown to dark grey skin that that often cover in tattoos and warpaint, the designs of which can be very intricate. Ritual scarring is also very important to them.
Magic users are rare among them, witches being the primary arcane magicians. They are animists, worshiping the spirits of animals and in some tribes their ancestors. Clerics are virtually unheard of, but oracles and shamans abound.
This sounds very cool! Their culture and religion doesn't sound too far off for the variant of Orcs I created here.
The green skin never bugged me, exactly, but I always thought it would be interesting to expand the color palette more. I sometimes play with the idea of Orcs being colored and shaped like Night Elves from WoW but with blue and green also possible.
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The Orcs in my homebrew setting, aside from being exceptionally cunning (+Str +Int or Wis, -Cha) never stop growing as they age, and have no known age where they begin to die naturally.
...this wasn't a known thing, until one of the chieftans convinced his tribe to stop killing each other for leadership and instead legally strongarm their way into civilized society.
Now, the most cosmopolitan city has a quite literal growing orc problem, as the original immigrants of the race are beginning to reach unnatural sizes.
I made a typo in my locations of the Orc (Guti) tribes. "Sing Grass Sea" should be "Singing Grass Sea". Stupid meds messing up my typing!
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In my sky pirate setting, orcs were the working man, enlisted soldiers, and generally the lower class of the empire run by the elves. This wasn't a great lot in life, but a lot more sympathetic than the usual barbarian horde. And they did have advocacy groups, and even political radicals. And of course, the brilliant scientist who leads the empire's R&D and single-handedly lead to their immense technological advantage over their rivals is a half-orc.
I've also had a setting where the hobgoblins are essentially the roman empire, now in decline but largely responsible for uniting and civilizing much of continent.
The Orcs in my homebrew setting, aside from being exceptionally cunning (+Str +Int or Wis, -Cha) never stop growing as they age, and have no known age where they begin to die naturally.
...this wasn't a known thing, until one of the chieftans convinced his tribe to stop killing each other for leadership and instead legally strongarm their way into civilized society.
Now, the most cosmopolitan city has a quite literal growing orc problem, as the original immigrants of the race are beginning to reach unnatural sizes.
Very interesting! I wonder if they could be giants.
I made a typo in my locations of the Orc (Guti) tribes. "Sing Grass Sea" should be "Singing Grass Sea". Stupid meds messing up my typing!
It's cool.
In my sky pirate setting, orcs were the working man, enlisted soldiers, and generally the lower class of the empire run by the elves. This wasn't a great lot in life, but a lot more sympathetic than the usual barbarian horde. And they did have advocacy groups, and even political radicals. And of course, the brilliant scientist who leads the empire's R&D and single-handedly lead to their immense technological advantage over their rivals is a half-orc.
I've also had a setting where the hobgoblins are essentially the roman empire, now in decline but largely responsible for uniting and civilizing much of continent.
This sounds very nice too! Given how the real life Roman Empire behaved, Hobgoblins are actually a very nice fantasy fit.
The Orcs in my homebrew setting, aside from being exceptionally cunning (+Str +Int or Wis, -Cha) never stop growing as they age, and have no known age where they begin to die naturally.
This is actually also a 40k thing (which I've adopted) with the caveat that they grow as a result of battles/fighting (and due to their nature, do this fairly naturally.)
A bit different than yours, but a similar eventuality of orks who are the size of significant monsters, with the same brutish mindset