Grey Maiden / Hellknight Plate of Speed?


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Lantern Lodge Customer Service Manager

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General reminder, please remain respectful of other community members even if you believe them to be incorrect. Saying "If you don't agree with my interpretation then you are XYZ" escalates the potential for threads to derailed or devolve into bickering.

Shadow Lodge

FedoraFerret wrote:
Here's the thing. Mechanically, as written, you're absolutely right. PFS as written doesn't allow it. However, this is a case where as a GM, and were I a Venture Officer (or John or someone else in PFS leadership) I would absolutely allow it within whatever domain I had say over, because, in essence, not allowing it punishes the people who use what are functionally flavor items, playing as a Hellknight or Gray Maiden and using the appropriate armor (whether for pure flavor or class reasons), and saying that because of that, they're not allowed to use these unique magic items. RAW over RAI has its place, particularly in PFS where there's multiple levels of people involved who all might have had different interpretations (as Isabelle pointed out, her interpretation is not necessarily the designers' or leaderships'), but when the RAW unnecessarily punishes a player's choice of a specific flavoring of their armor, or for taking a particular prestige class or archetype that requires that flavoring, that is beyond the line in my opinion.

Here's the thing about PFS: What happens when you allow this option for a character and that player tries to play that characters in a 'domain' with a stricter interpretation? This armor is now illegal and either has to be changed to the 'legal' version that can't be used with certain class features or needs to be converted back into cash and an entirely new set of armor purchased (an action which can probably never be reversed because the new armor is presumably completely legal).

In PFS, you need to keep in mind that a single character could have 33 different GMs (or double that if using slow advancement) before hitting seeker levels: RAW is used because it's a lot more consistent for players than having every RAI decision re-examined by every subsequent GM...

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

I think there needs to be a step back from RAW, because pedantry erupts from it, and those who seek the magic hole in the aether inevitably disrupt the harmony for everyone else.

Instead, what we really need is RAIDBAJ Rules As Indicated, Don't Be A Jerk which should really go without saying, but for some reason it keeps getting lost in ever increasing heaps of minutae.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

There is no "RAW".

What happens is you have different people interpreting the same written text in different ways.

It's a problem that's persisted since the invention of writing. Nothing we do here will change that.

All that can be done is to have more words added to make the written sections less likely to be misinterpreted. Aka, an FAQ.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


I think there needs to be a step back from RAW, because pedantry erupts from it, and those who seek the magic hole in the aether inevitably disrupt the harmony for everyone else.

Nefreet wrote:
There is no "RAW".

I would argue that it is RAI is much more the culprit as well as the one that really doesn't exist.

There have been many cases over the years of authors making things with an intention in mind only to find it had been changed in development or offocially ruled a different way, or both. Not even talking about later complete changes like the Monk's Flurry = TWF or SLA allowing qualification for Prestige Classes.

Different people read something, take Grey Maiden Armor, and assume that that their take on it, (the one that does what they want) is the devs intentions (before it was stated), when its very possible that there where multiple authors/developers involved, who very well might have had different intentions.

Paizo has also stated more than once that their intention for something was _____, and a few years later said their intent has always been the exact opposite of the first. Things and times change.

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