Is it me, or is Solar Armor underwhealming

[Nohwear]

I am not the sort who offense as the best defense, but Solar Armor just seems like the weaker option. Is there something that I am missing? What do you think? Is Solar Armor just plain weaker, ya or nay?

[Deadmanwalking]

Depends. The Elemental Resistance is actually quite good, and if going with a ranged build anyway, the AC boost makes your AC in light armor equal to that of people in Heavy.

It's probably not worth it on a Strength-based melee build though, no.

[Wrath]

There's a couple of threads floating around on this. A few even have builds showing that the solar armour scales with heavy armour pretty well with a Dex build.

Building something good in Dex and Strength isn't all that hard given the way stats increase in this game. At some some point they come pretty close to catching up with each other.

Eg. 14 Str, 16 Dex at level 1
Becomes 16, 18 at level 5
Becomes 18, 19 at level 10.

A one point difference is pretty negligible.

Of course, that then depends on what gear you kit out for your character after that (augments etc).

And as Zombie already stated, the ER is quite handy from level 5 onwards.

[Nohwear]

Thank you, I guess the problem is that Starfinder is a lower numbers game then Pathfinder, especially at lower levels.

[HWalsh]

Solar Armor in a Dex build is completely even with a Strength build and heavy armor.

The resistance is just like adding a dedicated mod slot that you get for free.

The EAC/KAC at 20 are identical.

[Maezer]

I find myself feeling the opposite. If you plan on wearing light armor, then armor is the clear choice as it is superior to just wearing appropriate item level light armor.

The weapon on the other hand, doesn't seem to be consistently superior to other advanced melee weapons. And sometimes is slightly inferior... though admittedly it does save you a nice bit of money and remains competitive in terms of damage.

Overall, while I feel this should be a class defining choice, I don't think it is.

[HWalsh]

Maezer wrote:

I find myself feeling the opposite. If you plan on wearing light armor, then armor is the clear choice as it is superior to just wearing appropriate item level light armor.

The weapon on the other hand, doesn't seem to be consistently superior to other advanced melee weapons. And sometimes is slightly inferior... though admittedly it does save you a nice bit of money and remains competitive in terms of damage.

Overall, while I feel this should be a class defining choice, I don't think it is.

The weapon is the highest average damage in Starfinder.

18d6+52 fire at level 20

[Maezer]

HWalsh wrote:

The weapon is the highest average damage in Starfinder.

18d6+52 fire at level 20

Okay? I must be missing something? Where is the flat +52 damage coming from that can't be applied to any advanced melee weapon.

[Deadmanwalking]

Nowhere. Technically a Solarian does more damage with an actual weapon...to the tune of 3 points on average. For a lot more money.

The advantage of going with the weapon is economic. You can replace your crystal way less often than your weapon, and that saves a lot of money. Way more than 3 points of damage worth.

[LuniasM]

Maezer wrote:

HWalsh wrote:

The weapon is the highest average damage in Starfinder.

18d6+52 fire at level 20

Okay? I must be missing something? Where is the flat +52 damage coming from that can't be applied to any advanced melee weapon.

+20 from Specialization, +10 from that Sheathe ability, +10 from Deadly Aim, and +8 or +9 Strength at Level 20 gets you to +48 or +49 damage, +3 from Photon Attunement. That should be it.

Starting with 18 Strength and using the Photon abilities gets you there, although if you ask me starting with 18 STR is a little too much on this class. Personal preference though.

[HWalsh]

LuniasM wrote:

Maezer wrote:

HWalsh wrote:

The weapon is the highest average damage in Starfinder.

18d6+52 fire at level 20

Okay? I must be missing something? Where is the flat +52 damage coming from that can't be applied to any advanced melee weapon.

+20 from Specialization, +10 from that Sheathe ability, +10 from Deadly Aim, and +8 or +9 Strength at Level 20 gets you to +48 or +49 damage, +3 from Photon Attunement. That should be it.

Starting with 18 Strength and using the Photon abilities gets you there, although if you ask me starting with 18 STR is a little too much on this class. Personal preference though.

Close - But not quite correct. You don't need 18 Strength to start with. You do need 16 though. Technically there is 1 2 handed advanced melee weapon that will beat the Solar Weapon though.

18d6 Weapon and Crystal
+8 (26 Strength - Start with 16, 18 at 5, 19 at 10, 20 at 15 +6 Enhancement)
+4 from Photon Attunement (1 +1/6 levels)
+20 Weapon Specialization
+10 Plasma Sheath
+10 Deadly Aim

18d6 + 52 fire damage (at 3.5 avg damage per die 63+52 = 115)

Dimensional Force Curve Blade can get to:
12d10
+8
+4
+20
+10
+10

12d10 + 52 fire damage (at 5.5 avg damage per die this powered weapon will actually get to 66+52 = 118)

[Melkiador]

Are there any good advantages to having a one handed weapon instead of two handed? It's not like we have a shield to put in the offhand, but is there anything that uses up that offhand slot?

[Starbuck_II]

Nohwear wrote:

I am not the sort who offense as the best defense, but Solar Armor just seems like the weaker option. Is there something that I am missing? What do you think? Is Solar Armor just plain weaker, ya or nay?

You are missing Power Armor. It works with all light Armor. This includes Solar Armor.

Heavy armor can't use that.

[HWalsh]

Melkiador wrote:

Are there any good advantages to having a one handed weapon instead of two handed? It's not like we have a shield to put in the offhand, but is there anything that uses up that offhand slot?

Phase Shield - Armor upgrade

Titan Shield - Armor upgrade

Gravity Shield - Solarian power

Having a pistol in off-hand and a melee weapon in main hand - Pirate style, sword and pistol style.

Multi-Weapon fighting

[HWalsh]

Starbuck_II wrote:

Nohwear wrote:

I am not the sort who offense as the best defense, but Solar Armor just seems like the weaker option. Is there something that I am missing? What do you think? Is Solar Armor just plain weaker, ya or nay?

You are missing Power Armor. It works with all light Armor. This includes Solar Armor.

Heavy armor can't use that.

Save for you need to get Heavy Armor to get Power Armor proficiency and Power Armor isn't really super good. It isn't bad, but it requires a certain build. Honestly that is the domain of the Soldier.

[David knott 242]

I think the key point about a Solarian's options is that he is making a pick for economic advantage. If he picks the armor, he gets a free armor upgrade that can only be applied to light armor, which means that he does not get armor options as good as if he took the Heavy Armor Proficiency feat and bought the best heavy armor that he could afford. If he picks the weapon, he has a free weapon that he can update with magic crystals, but it is not as good as the best weapon he can probably afford to buy.

But either way, he takes one option (armor or weapon) as a free/lower cost class feature and spends his credits making the other option the best it can be.

[HWalsh]

David knott 242 wrote:

I think the key point about a Solarian's options is that he is making a pick for economic advantage. If he picks the armor, he gets a free armor upgrade that can only be applied to light armor, which means that he does not get armor options as good as if he took the Heavy Armor Proficiency feat and bought the best heavy armor that he could afford. If he picks the weapon, he has a free weapon that he can update with magic crystals, but it is not as good as the best weapon he can probably afford to buy.

But either way, he takes one option (armor or weapon) as a free/lower cost class feature and spends his credits making the other option the best it can be.

Economics doesn't really play into it.

Solar Weapon = 0 Credits
Solarian Crystal for the Weapon = 3,000 - 4,000
Ranged Weapon = 5,000 - 5,000
Heavy Armor = 3,000 - 4,000 (and you can easily cap dex for it...)

Total cost: 10,000 - 13,000

Solar Armor
Light Armor = 4,000 - 5,000 (likely can't cap dex for many of them.)
Melee Weapon = 5,000 - 6,000
Ranged Weapon = 4,000 - 5,000

13,000 - 16,000

So depending on which option you go with it it can be more expensive, but not prohibitively so. It really comes down to personal preference and ease of use.

For *me* going melee, I don't see the point in going light armor. In order to use those massive heavy 2 handed weapons at maximum efficiency you need a high strength score. You can't get a 26 in both Strength *and* Dexterity and Operative Weapons don't have the damage output. To max out Heavy Armor you only need a +4 (you can get a +5 as well but)

A +4 Dex will get you maxed in an Ageis Series Specialist (+40/+43) with +4 Dex and Shield or the Monolith III at +(42/42) with +5 Dex and shield. It is easy to get to, and allow you to go for broke on Strength for to-hit and Damage.

If you are trying to cap the best Light Armor and having the 26 Strength to cap damage you're only going to get to a 24 Dex (+7) and that will get to you to 41/41 if you drop your +4 Enhancement into Dex and you'd have to suffer through a long bit of low Charisma so you're limited on Revelations.

With the Solarian it is all about remembering that the class is MAD. You need Strength/Dexterity/Charisma. You can get to 26/24/20 after enhancements.

So, going Heavy Armor allows you to use that 20 to cap Dex for your armor and get the maximum out of the best suit of armor possible. Dex isn't our damage, and Dex isn't our powers.

We can then slot a 26 in Strength and a 24 in Charisma.

If you want to cap Light Armor *and* Melee Damage you need to get somehow a 26 in Strength and a 26 in Dexterity. If you started with an 18 in Dex/Strength and a 16 whichever one you didn't put the 18 into you could do it. I don't see a mathematical way to do it.

(Why do you need that much? You get 1 +6, and 1 +4 maximum. You can't get +6 to Strength *and* Dexterity the game limits you no matter how many credits you have.)

Maximum light armor requires a +8... It's not impossible to get a +8 and a +7 (I do it in my build) but if you go that route, though, and it eats your dex and strength, then you are going to suffer in the Revelations department with a max or 20 or so.

So, it comes down to *if* you are trying to cap melee, you need a 26 Strength, if you want to cap Light Armored Defense you need a 26 Dexterity, and if you are trying to make effects stick at high levels you want as high a possible DC.

You can't max all 3, but by manipulating how much you need for armor, you can get close to it.

[Samy]

Solar armor is worthwhile for the simple reason that it allows you to have full plate AC while wearing a chainmail bikini, since you can dictate any visual appearance for the armor.