Readied Action, grey zone?


Rules Questions


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1) What exactly is a purely defensively action?
2)Let's say I ready with the trigger: "When he cast, I attack him". Now, this clearly inst a purely defensive action, os it should occur after the cast. But what if the spell is a 1 round casting time? Do I take my attack after the casting, loosing 1 round of action?
3) What if there's a spell gem of wich I don't know the spell, and I ready "If I'm attacked I use the unkonwn spell gem"? The time of reaction change depending on something unknown?

It seems the new wording is really grey.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The way I read it, a "purely" defensive action would be one that does not intend to cause harm to an opponent. Dropping prone, ducking behind cover, taking a total defense stance, casting a buff or utility spell, etc would all be purely defensive, and can happen before the opponent's action resolves. If you're attacking, doing a combat maneuver, or casting a spell on a foe, I'd say that's at least partially "offensive," even if you're doing it for the sake of self-defense.

For the second case, it seems correct to consider "starts casting a 1 round spell" equivalent to "casting a spell" as far as ready triggers go, so I'd certainly allow the ready-er to take action right after the caster has started casting (thus potentially causing the caster to lose the spell).

For the third case, triggering an unknown spell gem is still casting a spell, effectively. If it happens to be something non-offensive, I'd allow it to resolve first. Otherwise, it should happen after.


BraveRift wrote:

The way I read it, a "purely" defensive action would be one that does not intend to cause harm to an opponent. Dropping prone, ducking behind cover, taking a total defense stance, casting a buff or utility spell, etc would all be purely defensive, and can happen before the opponent's action resolves. If you're attacking, doing a combat maneuver, or casting a spell on a foe, I'd say that's at least partially "offensive," even if you're doing it for the sake of self-defense.

For the second case, it seems correct to consider "starts casting a 1 round spell" equivalent to "casting a spell" as far as ready triggers go, so I'd certainly allow the ready-er to take action right after the caster has started casting (thus potentially causing the caster to lose the spell).

For the third case, triggering an unknown spell gem is still casting a spell, effectively. If it happens to be something non-offensive, I'd allow it to resolve first. Otherwise, it should happen after.

Hmmm. So it would take more time moving 10 ft toward the caster than moving 30 ft away from him.

Totally counterintuitive.
Another question: would you consider casting Reflective Armor a purely defensive action, since it reflect some damage on the attaccker?


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Haha, I hadn't considered running *at* a ranged assailant as a readied action, but since moving doesn't damage anyone on its own, I'd probably rule that it can/should happen before the trigger resolves. Not sure exactly what that would do to ranged attacks/spells targeting you... Does a spell/grenade/bullet aimed at you or your space get a chance to target you at the new position, or is its position fixed before the movement is resolved? I guess I'd probably rule that, at least generally speaking, effects targeting a space don't "follow," but effects targeting a person do. So you could dodge a Fireball, but not a bullet (unless you got out of line of sight, or behind cover or something).

I think I'd consider Reflective Armor to be purely defensive. You're protecting yourself--it is kind of the opponent's fault if they actually hit you, but there's some chance that they might not, depending on the trigger.

FWIW, I agree that there's a lot of room for interpretation in all this, I'm just offering what I think would be a reasonable ruling given the wording.


BraveRift wrote:

Haha, I hadn't considered running *at* a ranged assailant as a readied action, but since moving doesn't damage anyone on its own, I'd probably rule that it can/should happen before the trigger resolves. Not sure exactly what that would do to ranged attacks/spells targeting you... Does a spell/grenade/bullet aimed at you or your space get a chance to target you at the new position, or is its position fixed before the movement is resolved? I guess I'd probably rule that, at least generally speaking, effects targeting a space don't "follow," but effects targeting a person do. So you could dodge a Fireball, but not a bullet (unless you got out of line of sight, or behind cover or something).

I think I'd consider Reflective Armor to be purely defensive. You're protecting yourself--it is kind of the opponent's fault if they actually hit you, but there's some chance that they might not, depending on the trigger.

FWIW, I agree that there's a lot of room for interpretation in all this, I'm just offering what I think would be a reasonable ruling given the wording.

I think running towards someone is not a defensive action. You are moving to threaten them. Getting an attack of opportunity on them when you otherwise could not is not defensive, it's offensive.


Mike Lindner wrote:


I think running towards someone is not a defensive action. You are moving to threaten them. Getting an attack of opportunity on them when you otherwise could not is not defensive, it's offensive.

As I said, that's a lot of thinkgs that are a bit strange. Moving toward someone is not a purely defensive action, but moving away to get cover yes. So if your enemy is at 15 ft from you and the cover is at 25 ft from you, and you ready the action, you'll take more time to move 15 ft than to move 30 ft (because you don't have the time to resolve the action before the trigger is concluded).

I find that ruling really strange.

Dark Archive

Another grey zone: It is mentioned in the Magic and Spells chapter the idea of using a readied action to interrupt a spellcaster. However, shooting a spellcaster is CLEARLY not a defensive action. So the shooting should take place after the spell goes off (unless it's longer than a standard action). Then how is one supposed to interrupt a caster with a readied action, as alluded to in the Magic and Spells chapter?

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