| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I need to head to bed, but if you're game I'd be really interested in seeing your first-impressions build so far as revelations go.
Which ones would you choose at which levels?Yeah, good question.
It’s pretty complicated. First, you want abilities that complement each other with respect to what they do. Second, you probably want to expect to either be in photon mode most of the time, or graviton mode most of the time, and so you should probably avoid abilities which are only good in the mode you’re not in. Third, the disproportionate revelations clause gives you an incentive to have roughly the same number of graviton abilities and photon abilities.
Anyway, in response to your question I cobbled together a couple builds, and I actually started to get excited about a few of them. Here’s my favorite:
- The “Aura of Pain” Build:
- Choose Solar Weapon or Solar Armor?: Either
- 2nd level revelation: Radiation
- 4th level revelation: Plasma Sheath
- 6th level revelation: Corona
- 8th level revelation: Glow of Life
- 9th level Zenith revelation: Miniature Star
- 10th level revelation: Soul Furnace
- Essential Feats: Stand Still, Step Up, Fleet (retrain into Sky Jockey once you get a jet pack)
- Nice Feats: Improved Stand Still, Improved Step Up, Combat Reflexes
- Essential Equipment: Jet Pack!!!, Weapon crystals (if go for Solar Weapon)
The idea here is to kick in your painful aura abilities, get next to your opponents as quickly as possible, and keep them from getting away as you maul them with your melee attacks and hamper them with your aura.
To explain a bit more: The Radiation and Corona abilities allow you to sicken and burn nearby opponents, and they last indefinitely while you’re in photon mode. You won’t get to use the Miniature Star zenith ability often (since your photon/graviton ability imbalance will make it harder to get there), but when you do get to kick it in, it really adds to the pain of anyone stuck near...
Question- is the sickend condition in pathfinder the same as the sickened condition in pathfinder? -2 to attacks saves and checks as a level two ability sounds amazing.
Can Solarions make 2 solar weapons at some point, or are the only limited to 1?My question appears to have been lost in the hubbub, so I'll ask it again.
Only one at a time.
Can Solarions make 2 solar weapons at some point, or are the only limited to 1?My question appears to have been lost in the hubbub, so I'll ask it again.
I think it's limited to 1 (and it acts like a one-handed kinetic advanced melee weapon).
Thematically, though, you're explicitly allowed to branch out to make it look like, say, floating tendrils of energy, or a sheath of energy around your fists, or (presumably) a pair of weapons in each hand (even though one of the hands isn't actually occupied).
But yeah, mechanically, I think it's always treated as one one-handed weapon.
EDIT: Ninja'd!
Sickened matches the Pathfinder version.
Question- is the sickend condition in pathfinder the same as the sickened condition in pathfinder? -2 to attacks saves and checks as a level two ability sounds amazing.
Yep! And it's comparatively even better than in Pathfinder, given how stingy Starfinder is with penalties and bonuses.
(Radiation does give them a save to resist. But still, a great second level ability.)
EDIT: Ninja'd again!
Damn you people are fast.
|
The Stand Still and Step Up feats make it much harder for anyone next to you to get away. And the Fleet (retrained into Sky Jockey) feats allow you to get adjacent to enemies as quickly as possible. (BTW, for those without the book: most of these feats are significantly better than their Pathfinder equivalents. For example, Stand Still now gives you a +8(!!) on your attack against someone trying to move away, and if it hits, they can't move away.)
.
You're misreading stand still. You don't make an attack with a +8 bonus, you make an attack against the enemy KAC +8.
You're misreading stand still. You don't make an attack with a +8 bonus, you make an attack against the enemy KAC +8.
The Stand Still and Step Up feats make it much harder for anyone next to you to get away. And the Fleet (retrained into Sky Jockey) feats allow you to get adjacent to enemies as quickly as possible. (BTW, for those without the book: most of these feats are significantly better than their Pathfinder equivalents. For example, Stand Still now gives you a +8(!!) on your attack against someone trying to move away, and if it hits, they can't move away.)
.
Ah, you're right. I did misread that. That makes the Improved Stand Still feat pretty much mandatory then (since it reduces the target to KAC +4).
That sounds a little painful, given how hard it is to get attack bonuses in Starfinder. But there was developer talk of shifting the math so that enemy creatures were generally much easier to hit than PCs... so perhaps that's what this is supposed to be taking into account? Hrmm...
I still like the build though!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Anyway, since I agree with Throne that you really have to start putting builds together to get a feel for the class, here's one I'll expect we'll see a lot:
- The Jedi Build:
- Choose Solar Weapon or Solar Armor?: Solar Weapon
- 2nd level revelation: Gravity Hold
- 4th level revelation: Plasma Sheath
- 6th level revelation: Defy Gravity
- 8th level revelation: Reflection
- 9th level Zenith revelation: Solar Acceleration
- 10th level revelation: Gravity Surge
- 12th level revelation: Hypnotic Glow
The idea here is just to build something that looks just like a Star Wars Jedi, and the choice of abilities reflect this — you get a plasma-sheathed light saber, some telekinetic abilities, can do crazy Jedi-like jumps, reflect ranged attacks at people, trip or disarm people from a distance, and even do Jedi-mind-tricks with Hypnotic Glow.
Anyway, this is a decent list of abilities. Gravity Hold’s combat use is (IMHO) kind of lame (though it's out of combat use is fun), and if you want to get any mileage out of Reflection, you need to fight defensively most of the time. But most of these abilities are pretty decent.
Play style-wise, you’ll probably want to be in photon mode most of the time (for the boosts this gives to Plasma Sheath and Reflection). And because your photon and graviton abilities are balanced, you can get to your Zenith ability relatively quickly.
Only one at a time.Can Solarions make 2 solar weapons at some point, or are the only limited to 1?My question appears to have been lost in the hubbub, so I'll ask it again.
That's a shame. Maybe it can be a talent in a later splatbook.
Sooo... can we build Solarians as Jedi? ^^With the right choices of revelations, yes you can!
You're good at melee combat, and you can fight with your own self-generated light saber. You can do the kinds of superhuman Jedi jumps. You can lift (light) objects, and lift creatures into the air and hold them immobile. You can trip or disarm opponents from a distance. You can charm people into doing things without them realizing it (if you're successful -- "those aren't the droids you're looking for"). And in the right circumstances, you can reflect ranged attacks back at people.
I think that's pretty much all of the canonical Jedi powers. It'll take you 5 or 6 revelations to do all of those things (so you'll need to be 10 or 12th level). But you can do it!
Sounds good! Now I'd like to get Uncanny Dodge as well, because I've been miffed for years that Jedi in Star Wars Saga did not have the spidersense they are shown to have in the movies. ^^
Anyway, since I agree with Throne that you really have to start putting builds together to get a feel for the class, here's one I'll expect we'll see a lot:
- The Jedi Build:
- Choose Solar Weapon or Solar Armor?: Solar Weapon
- 2nd level revelation: Gravity Hold
- 4th level revelation: Plasma Sheath
- 6th level revelation: Defy Gravity
- 8th level revelation: Reflection
- 9th level Zenith revelation: Solar Acceleration
- 10th level revelation: Gravity Surge
- 12th level revelation: Hypnotic Glow
Hmm, why just the one revelation at 9th? As I read the ability ("at 9th level and again at 17th level, you gain two powerful stellar revelations") you get two zenith revelations per pick (thereby letting you keep a more-or-less even number of non-zenith revelations).
You're right, almost the same build as the lvl-6 build I made yesterday on a piece of paper. :)
It's... almost... as if they wanted you to be able to make a Jedi using this class... :P
It sounds like you'd like the Astrologic Sense photonic relevation.
It's a free 1/day Augury. If you want to do it more often, it costs a Resolve Point per use. And if you're attuned, you can see an hour into the future instead of 30 minutes.
Yeah, that's another one that fits the Jedi theme pretty well (with the visions/dreams about potential future events and all). Nice one.
Sorry if it's been answered already and I missed it, but is there an Extra Revelation Feat?
Hmm, why just the one revelation at 9th? As I read the ability ("at 9th level and again at 17th level, you gain two powerful stellar revelations") you get two zenith revelations per pick (thereby letting you keep a more-or-less even number of non-zenith revelations).
Good catch!
I initially read it as you getting two revelations, one at 9th level and one at 17th. But after re-reading it, you're definitely right: you get to pick two zenith revelations (one which has to be photonic, one which as to be gravitonic) twice, at 9th and 17th levels.
For the Jedi build, I guess the Starquake zenith revelation seems like the best fit, out of the graviton-zenith revelations, for a Jedi-like figure (hurling multiple people to the ground).
For the Aura of Pain build, I guess all of the graviton zenith revelations would be an OK fit. The Starquake revelation knocks people prone which makes it harder for them to move away, and benefits from a good movement, which this build wants anyway. The Time Dilation revelation slows enemies down, and so (again) makes it harder for them to move away. And the Wormholes revelation gives you a way of effectively teleporting to where some distant enemies are, so you can bathe them in your aura too. I guess one could take their pick.
But in this case, I don't think it really matters. Since the Aura of Pain Solarian will never be graviton-attuned (to say nothing of *fully* graviton-attuned), they'll never be in a position to use their graviton zenith revelation.
Sorry if it's been answered already and I missed it, but is there an Extra Revelation Feat?
Nope. In fact, I don't think there are any "extra [class ability choice]" feats of any kind.
Probably an intentional choice to remove those kinds of feats.
*nods*
Don't blame em. Thankies for answering.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
To me, overall, the Solarian suffers from the same basic issues that monk does:
- for some reason, the writers keep overvaluing being able to do equipment-related things without equipment, and
- for some reason, the writers keep overvaluing at-will abilities, even when they're weaker than what level-comparable equipment can do.
Sounds good! Now I'd like to get Uncanny Dodge as well, because I've been miffed for years that Jedi in Star Wars Saga did not have the spidersense they are shown to have in the movies. ^^It sounds like you'd like the Astrologic Sense photonic relevation.
It's a free 1/day Augury. If you want to do it more often, it costs a Resolve Point per use. And if you're attuned, you can see an hour into the future instead of 30 minutes.
Also nice, but I was thinking more in the vein of sensing imminent danger, i.e. Uncanny Dodge or something similar.
To me, overall, the Solarian suffers from the same basic issues that monk does:
- for some reason, the writers keep overvaluing being able to do equipment-related things without equipment, and
- for some reason, the writers keep overvaluing at-will abilities, even when they're weaker than what level-comparable equipment can do.
Basically, yes. I agree.
Similar thing to "versatility" stuff like weapons able to be used in melee and ranged (ie: starknife is an exotic weapon in Pathfinder, and requires a lot of feats/magic items just to be able to full attack with it) compared to "specialized" weapons (ie: the composite longbow is martial, and you can full attack just fine, no feat or magic property required)
|
First, you need to use a move action to get close to them, and so can’t full attack. Second, you immediately fall if you’re not on solid ground, so (as I read it) you won’t even get the chance to attack them once.Why wouldn't you get to attack?
Jump > Slash > Fall
There will be times you don't fall, microgravity comes to mind. If you are using this power without gravity and you don't have a jetpack what happens? Do you keep going in the same direction until stopped?
Can you use a Melee weapon and Solarian weapon at the same time? Like have a Katana covered in a Solar blade?You can't use Solar Weapon to augment an existing weapon.
JUST GOT THE PDF! As I am looking through the few pages I have read I don't see where it says you can only weld the solar blade and that it doesn't cover an existing weapon. The thought process is if solar armor covers light armor then the solar blade would also cover a melee weapon and enhance it.
I'll keep reading but I am of the idea that it does improve your melee weapon.
|
Can you use a Melee weapon and Solarian weapon at the same time? Like have a Katana covered in a Solar blade?You can't use Solar Weapon to augment an existing weapon.JUST GOT THE PDF! As I am looking through the few pages I have read I don't see where it says you can only weld the solar blade and that it doesn't cover an existing weapon. The thought process is if solar armor covers light armor then the solar blade would also cover a melee weapon and enhance it.
I'll keep reading but I am of the idea that it does improve your melee weapon.
It says that you "can seize your solar note in one hand to form a melee weapon out of stellar energy." I'm pretty sure that means you can't use it to add to an existing weapon. Solar armor doesn't cover light armor - it literally makes you a suit of armor.
It says that you "can seize your solar note in one hand to form a melee weapon out of stellar energy." I'm pretty sure that means you can't use it to add to an existing weapon. Solar armor doesn't cover light armor - it literally makes you a suit of armor.Can you use a Melee weapon and Solarian weapon at the same time? Like have a Katana covered in a Solar blade?You can't use Solar Weapon to augment an existing weapon.JUST GOT THE PDF! As I am looking through the few pages I have read I don't see where it says you can only weld the solar blade and that it doesn't cover an existing weapon. The thought process is if solar armor covers light armor then the solar blade would also cover a melee weapon and enhance it.
I'll keep reading but I am of the idea that it does improve your melee weapon.
It also says you can't use the Solar Armor if you are wearing heavy armor. So I read that too but how I read it was if you are unarmed it would be considered a one handed melee weapon. If it wasn't it would act like the armor does. Gives you the benefit. Of course the art is always conflicting.
It doesn't say that it acts like Solar Armor does. Solar armor specifically says that it is compatible with light armor; solar weapon says nothing about it being compatible with a weapon so you cannot presume that it is.
That's what I was missing. Thanks,
I must admit, I'm a tad underwhelmed by Black Hole. Without ways to get more than a single AoO and the fact it has a very short range yank (For a game with mostly guns), it seems very hard to get people to you and to actually keep them there. Especially since it takes a standard action to use it so you won't be attacking if you use it.
It feels like it needed to take a note from 4e's defenders a bit more and work out ways to keep people from escaping afterwards. Make it more of a 'You are mine now' ability rather than minor positioning affecting.
I must admit, I'm a tad underwhelmed by Black Hole. Without ways to get more than a single AoO and the fact it has a very short range yank (For a game with mostly guns), it seems very hard to get people to you and to actually keep them there. Especially since it takes a standard action to use it so you won't be attacking if you use it.
At first, I felt the same way...and then I had a PFS game where a Grippli mounted on a frog used said mount's tongue to yank a boss-fight-fighter off a 20ft ledge to land prone at the feet of the party, taking a potentially difficult fight and making it much easier.
I could see Black Hole used to pull snipers off of towers, pull enemy operatives out from around corners/cover (if the Solarian had the right angles), and so on. Not an every-combat ability, to be sure, but still potentially useful.
Let me say at the outset of this post that I am not the best at ultra-optimization, and so while I won't turn away advice, I also am not seeking it. As a GM I favor story over rules, but I do like to make sure my characters have utility and usefulness. I am a little bit nervous about posting my whole build idea here, but since we're all exploring new territory here together...here goes?
(Also my formatting isn't in any sort of "standard style" - this is how I lay my characters out in text files before I transfer them to actual character sheets)
Rekkaken Soenzan
NG Korasha Lashunta (+2 Str +2 Cha -2 Wis, 4 hp)
Medium Humanoid (Lashunta), Speed 30
At Will: Daze, Psychokinetic Hand. 1/Day: Detect Thoughts
Limited Telepathy (30ft with those whom have a shared languages)
Student: +2 racial bonus to any two skills (Acrobatics & Piloting)
Theme - Spacefarer:
Reduce DC of Physical Science checks to recall knowledge about new worlds / features of space by 5
Physical Science class skill (or +1)
Constitution +1
Solarian (Sta: 7 + Con, 7 hp) - Key Ability: Charisma
4 + Int Skills (Acrobatics, Athletics, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Mysticism, Perception, Physical Science, Profession, Sense Motive, Stealth)
Light Armor, Basic Melee, Advanced Melee, Small Arms
Level 1: BAB +1, Fort +2 Ref +0 Will +2
Skill Adept: Add (Piloting & Sleight of Hand) as class skills
Solar Manifestation: Solar Weapon
Ability Scores (* plans for L5 increase)
12 + 4 = 16 (+3) *
10 + 3 = 13 (+1)
11 + 3 = 14 (+2) *
10 + 0 = 10 (+0)
8 + 0 = 8 (-1)
12 + 0 = 12 (+1) *
Level 1:
HP: 11 / SP: 9 / RP: 2
Fort: +4 / Ref: +1 / Will: +1
KAC: 11 / EAC: 11 / CM: 19
Initiative +1 / Encumbered: 9 / Overburdened: 17
Melee: +4 / Ranged: +2
Languages: Common, Castrovelian (Lashunta), Kasatha
Acrobatics [1] +1 (+3 +2) = +7
Athletics [1] +3 (+3) = +7
Bluff +1
Diplomacy +1
Disguise +1
Intimidate +1
Perception -1
Piloting [1] +1 (+3 +2) = +7
Sense Motive -1
Stealth [1] +1 (+3) = +5
Survival -1
1 - Heavy Armor Proficiency
3 - Step Up
5 - Mobility
7 - Step Up and Strike
9 - Deadly Aim
11 - Sidestep
Other ideas
Climbing Master
Extra Resolve
Spring Attack
Strike Back
Sidereal Influence
3 - Diplomacy / Stealth
Revelations
2 - Stellar Rush *
4 - Gravity Boost #
6 - Corona *
8 - Defy Gravity #
9 - (Ray of Light or Solar Acceleration) * / Wormholes # [Zenith]
10 - Stealth Warp #
12 - Blazing Orbit *
There are deficiencies in the build, yes, but I see the Equipment chapter as a way to work through those. Flight, Darkvision, etc. - many of these sorts of things have fixes/augmentations.
Anyhow, that's my plan for this Starfinder Society character, at least. Whether he's my first or my second character remains to be seen, though. Thanks for reading!
That's a shame. Maybe it can be a talent in a later splatbook.Only one at a time.Can Solarions make 2 solar weapons at some point, or are the only limited to 1?My question appears to have been lost in the hubbub, so I'll ask it again.
There's probably no need for it. Two weapon fighting (as in a bonus attack for a second weapon) isn't a thing, and when you get extra attacks it can be done with the one weapon. I've thought about making a Solarion who carries a second weapon, but with a single handed reach weapon (i.e. the Starfinder whips) to threaten out further.
There's probably no need for it. Two weapon fighting (as in a bonus attack for a second weapon) isn't a thing, and when you get extra attacks it can be done with the one weapon. I've thought about making a Solarion who carries a second weapon, but with a single handed reach weapon (i.e. the Starfinder whips) to threaten out further.That's a shame. Maybe it can be a talent in a later splatbook.Only one at a time.Can Solarions make 2 solar weapons at some point, or are the only limited to 1?My question appears to have been lost in the hubbub, so I'll ask it again.
Having two solar blades would mitigate full attack penalties for people with the multi-weapon fighting feat.
Honestly, there isn't much to DO with an off hand in combat right now. Shields (Unless you are in power armour) don't exist and TWF doesn't do much.
I look forward to some gear being released (Like say, a grappling hook gun) that lets you take advantage of that off hand.
Having two solar blades would mitigate full attack penalties for people with the multi-weapon fighting feat.There's probably no need for it. Two weapon fighting (as in a bonus attack for a second weapon) isn't a thing, and when you get extra attacks it can be done with the one weapon. I've thought about making a Solarion who carries a second weapon, but with a single handed reach weapon (i.e. the Starfinder whips) to threaten out further.
That's a shame. Maybe it can be a talent in a later splatbook.
Ooooh, I hadn't seen that feat! *pulls up PDF and reads through the feat* ...but it only works for small arms or operative weapons, both of which solar blades aren't. (Unless I'm missing something else and they can count as operative weapons, making a dex Solarion very enticing!)
Ooooh, I hadn't seen that feat! *pulls up PDF and reads through the feat* ...but it only works for small arms or operative weapons, both of which solar blades aren't. (Unless I'm missing something else and they can count as operative weapons, making a dex Solarion very enticing!)Having two solar blades would mitigate full attack penalties for people with the multi-weapon fighting feat.There's probably no need for it. Two weapon fighting (as in a bonus attack for a second weapon) isn't a thing, and when you get extra attacks it can be done with the one weapon. I've thought about making a Solarion who carries a second weapon, but with a single handed reach weapon (i.e. the Starfinder whips) to threaten out further.
That's a shame. Maybe it can be a talent in a later splatbook.
If they do ever receive the ability to have two solar weapons then this is covered by Flashing Strikes, as it functions the same as the Multi-Weapon Fighting feat.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Are you the future or are you the past,
have you been chosen or are you the last
the pictures were sent they seem so unreal
now im made of plastic, wire and steel
follow for now and follow for this
cause everybody follows for nothing at all?
supernova your supernova ...
supernova goes pop
supernova you think it's over but supernova don't stop
can you explain just what you are,
cause i've never been this close to a star
the message was sent you know what to do,
everybody needs to be someone don't you
follow for now and follow for this
cause everybody follows for nothing at all?
supernova your supernova ...
supernova goes pop
supernova you think it's over but supernova don't stop
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Solarion needs an option to focus on either Graviton or Photon, instead of having to balance the 2
No Offense, but you are missing what the Solarian is about. Focusing on one limits the class so much. Deciding to choke a mage in battle to stop him/her from casting a spell or deciding to set the soldier on fire is the whole point. Options instead of being limited but one.
I haven't had a chance to thoroughly read all the classes yet, but the Solarion definitely makes me hope for some class specific archetypes in the future. The Solarion needs an option to focus on either Graviton or Photon, instead of having to balance the 2, and an option to use your solar weapon at range would be nice too. A multi-Solar weapon option would be interesting too.
I was under the impression archetypes weren't happening, instead themes are.
But that could be hopeful optimism misremembering things.
I haven't had a chance to thoroughly read all the classes yet, but the Solarion definitely makes me hope for some class specific archetypes in the future. The Solarion needs an option to focus on either Graviton or Photon, instead of having to balance the 2, and an option to use your solar weapon at range would be nice too. A multi-Solar weapon option would be interesting too.I was under the impression archetypes weren't happening, instead themes are.
But that could be hopeful optimism misremembering things.
Archetypes started in the core rulebook. Class-specific archetypes are not, at least not unless they change their minds later on.
Themes are more what replaced traits than a replacement for archetypes.
Right, right. That was it. I knew some form of dumpster diving was gone, the other was just lessened (and doesn't sound too bad, just really limited initially)
Does anyone else think that when you get stellar revelations you should be able to choose 2 at a time instead of 1? There are 23 total and you only get to choose 10 total. Basically 5 per side. You are leaving a lot of the table basically.
I haven't had a chance to thoroughly read all the classes yet, but the Solarion definitely makes me hope for some class specific archetypes in the future. The Solarion needs an option to focus on either Graviton or Photon, instead of having to balance the 2, and an option to use your solar weapon at range would be nice too. A multi-Solar weapon option would be interesting too.I was under the impression archetypes weren't happening, instead themes are.
But that could be hopeful optimism misremembering things.
Archetypes started in the core rulebook. Class-specific archetypes are not, at least not unless they change their minds later on.
Themes are more what replaced traits than a replacement for archetypes.
This^
I have a feeling that we'll see more multi-class archetypes before we see more themes. I mean we might get a Mystic/Solarion archetype that specifies what an evil Solarion/Mystic looks like and what extra abilities come with that alignment. After that we could see a Solarion/Soldier/Operative archetype that shows us some sort of hyper melee or hyper gun user.
Archetypes have not bottom, Themes I think can be a finite resources.
First, you need to use a move action to get close to them, and so can’t full attack. Second, you immediately fall if you’re not on solid ground, so (as I read it) you won’t even get the chance to attack them once.Why wouldn't you get to attack?
Jump > Slash > Fall
I could see the immediate gravity after using the ability being be a good option for grappling flying enemies. I always liked building monks as grapple fiends. Flying up to a floating enemy, grappling/pinning them and pile driving them from 30ft up would be pretty satisfying.