Specific skill feats for certain weapons


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


So, I just recently got the Monk class deck, and a lot of the weapons in there say you can use your "Acrobatics, Strength, or Melee skill" for your combat check.

Sajan and Rooboo both have use a d10 for dex, but only Sajan has Acrobatics to start off with (one of Rooboo's prestige classes allows you to gain Acrobatics eventually). My question is, if I play as Roobboo, can I not use my dex die for all those weapons that require Acrobatics despite it being a Dexterity based skill? It seems like maybe not cause it lists Strength AND Melee, but not Dexterity and Acrobatics. Or am I wrong, and it's only listing Acrobatics as the skill so you can get that added bonus if you have it?

The group I play with usually uses the base skill if it's a check to acquire a boon (ie. if a boon requires just the divine skill and one of us doesn't have divine, we just roll our wisdom die, because in D&D that's how you would do it). So if we kept operating under those rules, perhaps Rooboo could use her dex for those Acrobatics based weapons. But maybe we aren't even allowed to do that! I'm not sure, perhaps we missed that in the rules.

Any help would be appreciated!


Hey, I'll gladly clarify the rules for you:

Unless a skill is explicitly listed on your character, it is equal to 1d4. In your examples, Rooboo has, before taking any roles, Acrobatics equal to 1d4, and every character that does not have Divine listed has Divine equal to 1d4.

As such, Rooboo can not use her Dexterity for the Monk weapons, because it is not listed. She can use 1d4 as her Acrobatic skill to use the weapons, but that is clearly worse than just using her Strength skill.

If how you have been playing was more fun to you then the rules above, you can just keep playing this way by making it a house rule, since it's your game and you should have fun; however, it makes the game easier.

In particular, there is no predefined assignment from derived skills (Acrobatics, Divine, etc) to primary skills (Strength, Dexterity, etc), so while some characters may have Divine: Wisdom + X, other characters may have Divine: Charisma +Y. If you want to use your houserule, you should settle with a fixed assignment of secondary skills to primary skills.


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No you can't and that's because there is no given "base skill" on a somehow "sub-skill".

Example: arcane is NOT a sub-skill of intelligence. Not in the card game and not in the RPG either! For example, Sorcerers have their "arcane" built on Charisma, not Intelligence. Oracle have their "divine" built on Charisma, not Wisdom.

So there may be a link depending of your class but not a generic link. In the card game is translated by the skills being independent. You could even imagine the same character having two role cards, one giving him divine=charisma+1 and the other divine=wisdom+1.

Bottom line, that's why each card tells you exactly what skills you can use. If it says dexetrity or range, it means you can use one or the other. If it only says range and you don't have that skill, then you roll d4.

So if it says divine only and you don't have it, it's d4.

Think of a barbarian trying to use a spell from a scroll in the RPG. it doesn't really matter if he is wise or not, he just have just a bit of chance of success and only if the spell is low level. This is somehow translated in the PACG game by giving him one chance to use the card, but only rolling d4 in order to recharge it (so unless this is a very basic spell he will have to banish it).

Hoping that helps.

Now it's your game, you can change the rules but I fear it may be to easy to acquire boons. IMHO.

Edit: Ninja'ed by the stealthy knowledgeable monk :-)


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Furthermore, if you do decide to use Acrobatics on Rooboo for the 1d4 base, it is not a dexterity check. Blessing of Erastil (add 2 dice to a combat dexterity check) would not work, nor would Belt of Agility.

Unless the skill is directly listed on the character card as based on another skill, it is not based on any other skills. This is different from the RPG where attempting skills untrained just meant you used the base ability modifier. In the card game, Acrobatics is only a dexterity-based skill for characters whose cards say "Acrobatics: Dexterity +X". Characters who do not have it listed like that treat Acrobatics as it's own skill, either at 1d4 (if unlisted) or whatever it is listed at. For example, a hypothetical character who gains the Acrobatics skill equal to 1d12 gets to roll 1d12 for her Acrobatics checks, but it is still not a dexterity check and does not gain the benefit of any skill feats.

MM Rulebook, p11 wrote:
Cards that require a check specify the skill or skills you can use to attempt the check. Each check to defeat or acquire a card lists one or more skills; you may choose any of the listed skills for your check. For example, if a check lists Dexterity, Disable, Strength, and Melee, you may use any one of those skills to attempt your check. Even if your character doesn’t have any of the skills listed for a check, you can still attempt the check, but your die is a d4.

I recommend you grab the Mummy's Mas rulebook PDF (free download on this site), even if you are playing a different set. The MM rulebook contains the most recent version of the rules as of this post, and clears up a number of things that were vague in previous rulebooks. You will still need the rulebook for your set in order to know any set-specific rules (such as Ships in S&S or Corrupted cards in WotR). Also check the FAQ for your set and any Class Decks you are using; it contains a number of errata for the cards and rulebook that clarify issues and fix broken things.


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Frencois wrote:
Think of a barbarian trying to use a spell from a scroll in the RPG. it doesn't really matter if he is wise or not, he just have just a bit of chance of success and only if the spell is low level. This is somehow translated in the PACG game by giving him one chance to use the card, but only rolling d4 in order to recharge it (so unless this is a very basic spell he will have to banish it).

This is not correct. Unless the skill is actually listed on your card, you do not have that skill (even though you can roll 1d4 for it). The Barbarian can certainly play a Divine spell, but since the Barbarian does not have the Divine skill, the spell is always banished. They do not get a recharge check at all.


skizzerz wrote:
This is not correct. Unless the skill is actually listed on your card, you do not have that skill (even though you can roll 1d4 for it). The Barbarian can certainly play a Divine spell, but since the Barbarian does not have the Divine skill, the spell is always banished. They do not get a recharge check at all.

Ooops.... absolutely. Don't know what I was thinking. I was thinking some ideas about aquiring it and then just lost my mind.


Thanks all for the help! We did kind of make our thing a house rule since we are just playing for fun, only because I guess we missed the d4 rule. I will definitely go ahead and dl that Mummy's Mask PDF for us (we just finished Rise of the Runelords and are on Skulls and Shackles now).

Couple more queries now. Can you still use any blessing on a skill you don't have just to add an extra d4 (ie. Blessing of the Gods on Rooboo's Acrobatics check to roll 2d4)? And I assume blessings that specify primary skills can still be used for derived skill checks? ie. using Blessing of Irori for a Knowledge check, if your character has Knowledge: intelligence d10+2 (or something like that)?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
ultrablue123 wrote:
Couple more queries now. Can you still use any blessing on a skill you don't have just to add an extra d4 (ie. Blessing of the Gods on Rooboo's Acrobatics check to roll 2d4)? And I assume blessings that specify primary skills can still be used for derived skill checks? ie. using Blessing of Irori for a Knowledge check, if your character has Knowledge: intelligence d10+2 (or something like that)?

Yes and yes. A blessing will say "Add a die to any check." If you're defaulting to a d4, the blessing makes it 2d4. And for your character with Knowledge:Intelligence d10+2, then for that character a Knowledge check is also an Intelligence check, so the blessing of Irori would give you two more d10, for a total of 3d10+2.


First World Bard wrote:

Yes and yes. A blessing will say "Add a die to any check." If you're defaulting to a d4, the blessing makes it 2d4. And for your character with Knowledge:Intelligence d10+2, then for that character a Knowledge check is also an Intelligence check, so the blessing of Irori would give you two more d10, for a total of 3d10+2.

Cool, thank you. Just wanted to clarify that.


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It's your game, if that house rule makes things more fun for you, then go for it! There are general mappings of sub-skills to base skills, but they are really only relevant for creating custom characters if you follow RAW (Rules As Written), as there is no mechanical benefit in-game for knowing this mapping. It is as follows:

  • Melee: Strength
  • Ranged: Dexterity
  • Stealth: Dexterity
  • Disable: Dexterity
  • Acrobatics: Dexterity
  • Fortitude: Constitution
  • Knowledge: Intelligence
  • Craft: Intelligence
  • Perception: Wisdom
  • Survival: Wisdom
  • Diplomacy: Charisma
  • Arcane: Intelligence or Charisma
  • Divine: Wisdom or Charisma

In the latter end of Skull & Shackles as well as throughout Wrath of the Righteous and Mummy's Mask, you will see blessings with various restrictions on use. So, you'll need to read the blessing card in question in order to see what it does.

The vast majority of blessings you'll be seeing in Skull & Shackles have the power "Discard this card to add 1 die to a check." This works no matter who is making the check, where that character is in relation to your character, or what type of check it is. If they're rolling 1d4 for their main skill, it adds 1d4. If it's 1d12, it adds 1d12. If you don't have Acrobatics (so 1d4) and play an ally which reads "Reveal this card to add 1d10 to an Acrobatics check", the blessing still only adds 1d4 (letting you roll 2d4 + 1d10 total).

Other blessings may only add to your checks, can only be played if the top card of the blessings discard pile has a certain trait, or other various restrictions. As such, the "add 1 die" thing isn't a general power -- you need to see what your blessing card actually says.

You may also find this post insightful. It is tangentially related to your Blessing of Irori question, and gives a detailed breakdown on how to determine what type of check something is. I wrote it a while ago, but I believe it is still accurate (there is one minor detail that may or may not be accurate, but even if that detail is inaccurate it does not change the content in a meaningful way -- see the spoiler below if you care about details).

Spoiler:
The detail that may not be entirely accurate in my linked post is how I treat Combat as a skill. It is currently unresolved as to whether or not "Combat" is a skill in and of itself -- and therefore gets added as a trait on the check -- or if it gets special treatment where it is not added as a trait but you still "know" if a check is combat or non-combat anyway. My post treats it like a regular skill rather than a special-case thing. The cases where this distinction matters are very niche and I won't go into them right now.


Right right, cool thanks. I think we've generally been using blessings correctly and in this way. I just wanted to make sure with the newly discovered rule of using just a d4 for a skill a character doesn't have, the check can still be modified by the general "Add 1 die to a check" that most blessings have, in case we want to add a bunch of blessings to those measly d4 checks we'd have to do if we decide to follow the real rules. In general it may not come up often that a specific skill is the only skill that a bane or boon (to acquire) requires you to use, but I feel like it has happened occasionally.

The linked post is good too. I feel like I will keep that handy just in case some issue comes up that we can't agree on. In general, I'm glad you clarified that items such as the Topaz of Strength (which I'm seeing are common in S&S) only replace your die rather than your skill. The card definitely just says replace the die, but I feel like already may have screwed that up once or twice haha.


There _are_ exceptions to the general rule - Imrijka in WotR had her Ranged skill based on Strength, Shardra in WotR and Estra in Mummy's Mask had her Knowledge skill based on Wisdom, and Reepazo had her Melee skill based on Dexterity. The reason for the rules being the way they are is so that they can be flexible like that.

Some of the items in Mummy's Mask (Kohl of Uncanny Discernment for example) has Intelligence/Perception checks which seems to indicate for those Perception is based on Intelligence rather than Wisdom.

So in general it works, but there are exceptions for a reason.

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