This is not a "I got you" post, but my DM used this creature tonight, and i had a bit of a concern when he said the creature attacked with all it's heads or even the maximum number of heads based on his dex on a AOO intentionally provoked by my Dragon, who flew past the creature in order to get to a more open space.
My understanding of AOO's might be misconstrued, but I was under the impression that even with Combat Reflexes and a high dex you can't take more than 1 attack of opportunity against a single creature, even if you had the ability to make more than one attack as such is the case of the hydra and it's 12 heads. I looked at the creature when I got home couldn't find anything in it's entry that made an exception to this rule, and didn't see anything in Combat Reflexes?(The example of snap shot and AOO's was confusing to me and wasn't directly answering my question.)
First, the Miasma Hydra, or at least the one I found on Nethys, has a Dexterity score of 14. Which means it is limited to 3 attacks of opportunity a round (its original one, then 2 more due to a Dexterity modifier of +2).
Second, a creature with multiple attacks of opportunity can definitely use more than one against the same creature in the same round. The limitation, however, which appears to be the case here, is that you cannot provoke more than one AoO per enemy for the same action. A character who takes multiple actions in their turn, or an action that provokes for multiple reasons, provokes multiple times.
Example: A wizard is prone in a square within the hydra's reach. He stands up (move action that provokes), which the hydra gets one AoO for, which it can make with only one bite. Then he begins to cast Scorching Ray (standard action that provokes), which the hydra again gets an AoO for, which it can make with one bite (including with the same head that bit the wizard just a moment ago, if so desired). Finally, the wizard makes a ranged attack with Scorching Ray against the hydra, which provokes once again (due to making a ranged attack), and the hydra gets its third AoO for.
First, the Miasma Hydra, or at least the one I found on Nethys, has a Dexterity score of 14. Which means it is limited to 3 attacks of opportunity a round (its original one, then 2 more due to a Dexterity modifier of +2).
Second, a creature with multiple attacks of opportunity can definitely use more than one against the same creature in the same round. The limitation, however, which appears to be the case here, is that you cannot provoke more than one AoO per enemy for the same action. A character who takes multiple actions in their turn, or an action that provokes for multiple reasons, provokes multiple times.
Example: A wizard is prone in a square within the hydra's reach. He stands up (move action that provokes), which the hydra gets one AoO for, which it can make with only one bite. Then he begins to cast Scorching Ray (standard action that provokes), which the hydra again gets an AoO for, which it can make with one bite (including with the same head that bit the wizard just a moment ago, if so desired). Finally, the wizard makes a ranged attack with Scorching Ray against the hydra, which provokes once again (due to making a ranged attack), and the hydra gets its third AoO for.
Yes that all sounds fair, and I would agree with that if it was the situation, but that's not what happened and im now conflicted whether or not to correct the DM for future encounters or just ignore it and continue on.
Well, it really is best if he understands the rules. The DM/GM is the rules arbiter of the game. AoO's happen with reasonable frequency. The rules are pretty clear on how it works as outlined by Saethori. I'm curious as to his logic. It's as if he's considering each head an individual monster which I don't think the rules support. If you can't have a rules discussion with your DM/GM that's a really bad place to be in. As long as people are respectful there's no reason for a DM/GM to not be willing to discuss the ruling. Now it's preferable not to do this in the midst of play unless the ruling is critical (ie TPK one way or PC's win the other), but at a break it's more than reasonable to go over the call, or at least it should be.
I believe the GM is used to the 3.5 edition rules where hydras had a special clause that allowed it to gain additional attacks of opportunity equal to the number of its heads. A hydra could also attack with all its heads as a regular attack action. It was never quite clear how those abilities were supposed to interact with each other.
Fortunately the pathfinder version is far less ambiguous as there is nothing allowing the hydra to attack with more than one head unless its uses a full-attack. It got pounce as a compensation, but that doesn't affect attacks of opportunity.
First, the Miasma Hydra, or at least the one I found on Nethys, has a Dexterity score of 14. Which means it is limited to 3 attacks of opportunity a round (its original one, then 2 more due to a Dexterity modifier of +2).
Second, a creature with multiple attacks of opportunity can definitely use more than one against the same creature in the same round. The limitation, however, which appears to be the case here, is that you cannot provoke more than one AoO per enemy for the same action. A character who takes multiple actions in their turn, or an action that provokes for multiple reasons, provokes multiple times.
Example: A wizard is prone in a square within the hydra's reach. He stands up (move action that provokes), which the hydra gets one AoO for, which it can make with only one bite. Then he begins to cast Scorching Ray (standard action that provokes), which the hydra again gets an AoO for, which it can make with one bite (including with the same head that bit the wizard just a moment ago, if so desired). Finally, the wizard makes a ranged attack with Scorching Ray against the hydra, which provokes once again (due to making a ranged attack), and the hydra gets its third AoO for.
This, right here, is the right answer. Any action that provokes an AoO only allows one attack (not counting mythic shenanigans). A single character can provoke many times but any individual action can only provoke once.
"An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack. (...) If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent."
That's what the combat rules in the CRB say.
Ask your GM if he could please re-read the AoO section in the CRB.
I believe the GM is used to the 3.5 edition rules where hydras had a special clause that allowed it to gain additional attacks of opportunity equal to the number of its heads. A hydra could also attack with all its heads as a regular attack action. It was never quite clear how those abilities were supposed to interact with each other.
Fortunately the pathfinder version is far less ambiguous as there is nothing allowing the hydra to attack with more than one head unless its uses a full-attack. It got pounce as a compensation, but that doesn't affect attacks of opportunity.
I'm guessing this is the crux of the issue. Pathfinder hydra's can't make all of their bite attacks on an attack of opportunity like they could in past editions. Now, they have pounce instead, which doesn't interact with attacks of opportunity at all.
Yes that all sounds fair, and I would agree with that if it was the situation, but that's not what happened and im now conflicted whether or not to correct the DM for future encounters or just ignore it and continue on.
As a DM that makes mistakes, a 1-on-1 convo saying "Hey, I don't think it should have worked like that, but I didn't want to argue or slow down the game, and I definitely am not asking for any "take backs". Here's my reasoning, let me know if you agree.".
I've made mistakes before that the players later brought up, and we all agreed that it worked the "wrong way" once, but for the future it wouldn't.
Or, the DM might rule "ok but my hydras work differently" which is valid as well.
What's so bad about "take backs?" Seems like everyone is always afraid to ask for them, but if someone made a mistake, and a character was killed as a result, there really shouldn't be any fear in the asking.