I'll be participating in a PVP one-shot session coming up, and need some advice on how to make an Arcanist. While I made a Blasting Arcanist guide, something tells me that's not going to be particularly effective here.
Of course, there are rules to follow, but it's fairly basic and simple to understand, and if there are any changes or additions to the rules, I'll post them as I'm made aware. Without further ado, here they are:
1. There will be two parties that consist of the following classes: Arcanist, Oracle, Brawler, Slayer, Bard. Archetypes are allowed, but no multiclassing or snatching Prestige Classes. The characters will be 5th level, but possess no character traits to start with. (Additional Traits feat is still allowed to be taken, though.)
2. All 1st Party abilities and sources are allowed (though I would personally prefer hardcover sources so that when fellow players ask me about certain rules I can just grab the hardcover we own and point them at it), as well as standardized races (such as Aasimars or Fetchlings).
3. Players get 15 Point Buy to work with, as well as standard WBL (which for 5th level is 10,500 gold). As far as I know, standard equipment (such as a typical Large Bastard Sword and 50 feet of regular rope) is free, but Masterwork, Material, and Enhancement costs are paid for as normal. Same goes for Wondrous Items if we decide to grab them.
4. No spells of 3rd level or higher are allowed from any source (which means no batches of Fly Scrolls to uber-buff my party members). No summons/pets/companions are permitted, either. Trip Maneuvers of any kind are likewise forbidden (don't ask why things like Sunder, Disarm, Grapple, and so on, aren't forbidden, you'll be disappointed in the answer; just roll with it).
5. The teams will be randomized, and nobody will know who built what until the day of the session (so as to not have players come up with some stupidly overpowered combo attack).
If you have any questions about other rules, feel free to ask, and I'll reply with an answer as soon as I get one.
Now, for my Arcanist, I'm thinking of a Peri-Blooded Aasimar (the stat boosts, resistances, and SLA are king), specializing in Save/Suck or Battlefield Control spells; Necromancy has a lot of Save/Suck spells, so specializing in that would be ideal, but the effectiveness of spells like Create Pit are additionally interesting.
I'm also at a loss of words as to what magic items I'll want (besides the obvious Big 6), what other spells I should take (or even get as a Scroll), if I want to take an archetype, and so on. I mean, I have made a guide involving the Arcanist, but that only deals with damage maximization, which I'm expecting to leave to my party members because they're most likely going to be built to do that.
In short, I'm looking for a fresh set of eyes that can help me deal with any potential tactics and pitfalls I'll need to watch out for (and counter) with my Arcanist while maintaining my ability to take the threat out of bad guys.
Are you doing the multiplication of consumable costs for one shots? If not..... Black Powder :)
ok so your highest spell level is 2nd and you want to get really high save dc, you might try the following:
-: get spell focus and greater spell focus for up to +2 for school dc. (elves can get up to 2 different spell focus as alternative race abilities).
2: if extra traits allow campaign traits ,take extra traits->Outlander->lore seeker for a +1 caster +1 dc for 3 spells (this trait is for ANY campaign so unlike others might be allowed.)
3: "Potent Magic" exploit will let you nab +2 to dc or caster level at 1 pool point cost.
4: take he spell specialist archtype for extra +1 for specific spells dc
5: obviously max out your dc stat (int) and get a headband of +2 int (+4 if crafting feats are allowed and you can spend 8k making it)
if done right your level 2 specifically selected spell would have a dc of 10+2(level)+6(int 20+2 item) +1(trait)+1(archtype)+2 (feats)+2 (pool point spent) = 24(25 if +4 int item)
i know ur bent on necro but try to go for will saves as non of the classes is heavily built on wisdom.
i myself would go with glitterdust as it not only blind a group of targets but also show invisible creatures
I think the idea of boosting save DCs for save-or-suck spells works well here. Because of the lack of obvious flight options, Create Pit might be really good, as well as the ever-useful-and-flexible Grease. Mudball if your GM doesn't mind a typically Goblin-only spell.
As zza ni suggested, Glitterdust is also a really solid call, though I'm not seeing invisibility as being a major concern to have to counter necessarily.
Even a simple Darkness spell can be brutal at this level, if you have Darkvision. I suspect many will opt for Human characters for the extra feat, so this could be a major headache for them. A possible scroll purchase?
Spell Focus: Conjuration seems like an obvious choice based on some of your options. While Necromancy has some good save-or-suck spells, the best ones take off at later levels, IMO. Having said that Ray of Enfeeblement might be super annoying to any STR-based enemies. (Though not Necromancy or Conjuration, Touch of Gracelessness could also be similarly painful to DEX-based enemies, if you can get it off.)
Alternatively, if you want to continue down the blaster route, consider grabbing Burning Arc and using things like Spell Focus: Evocation and Spell Specialization, along with Potent Magic. It may be quite powerful to be able to spam a 9d6 fire attack, that does 4d6 to another nearby enemy, and then 2d6 to another one.
For defence, given your limited number of spells, I'd consider just grabbing a scroll of Mage Armor, then taking Vanish as a prepared spell. Not sure I could justify using one of your two 2nd level slots for it, but Mirror Image is a major impediment to melee enemies.
Because feats might be quite important here (Spell Focus, Spell Specialization, Extra Traits, etc), you may want to consider a Human over Peri-Blooded Aasimar.
As for exploits, I think Potent Magic is obvious. Bloodline Development: Arcane to get an Arcane Bond and the ability to pop off any spell in your spellbook is super solid and adds to your flexibility. Dimensional Slide is nice for battlefield movement, but probably won't save you if you get grappled. Quick Study might give you flexibility in spell choices, if you think you'll have time to use a full round action to swap something out. There are probably some tricks to leverage using School Understanding, too (I recall something about the Void school...).
Metamagic Knowledge is nice if you're using traits to reduce the cost of metamagic on a specific spell (shenanigans would include taking Extra Traits and combining Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage on something like Glitterdust, then adding Persistent metamagic -- I disapprove of that level of cheese, though.)
Lastly, since there will be an Arcanist on the other side, you might want to consider good ways to neutralize or counter him/her. Blinding him/her with Glitterdust would be pretty dandy, as would dropping him/her into a pit (and cutting off line of sight for many spells. Of course, just incinerating an enemy caster also works wonders to prevent them from killing you.
Are you allowed to buff yourself or your party before the fight?
I think the idea of boosting save DCs for save-or-suck spells works well here. Because of the lack of obvious flight options, Create Pit might be really good, as well as the ever-useful-and-flexible Grease. Mudball if your GM doesn't mind a typically Goblin-only spell.
As zza ni suggested, Glitterdust is also a really solid call, though I'm not seeing invisibility as being a major concern to have to counter necessarily.
Even a simple Darkness spell can be brutal at this level, if you have Darkvision. I suspect many will opt for Human characters for the extra feat, so this could be a major headache for them. A possible scroll purchase?
Spell Focus: Conjuration seems like an obvious choice based on some of your options. While Necromancy has some good save-or-suck spells, the best ones take off at later levels, IMO. Having said that Ray of Enfeeblement might be super annoying to any STR-based enemies. (Though not Necromancy or Conjuration, Touch of Gracelessness could also be similarly painful to DEX-based enemies, if you can get it off.)
Alternatively, if you want to continue down the blaster route, consider grabbing Burning Arc and using things like Spell Focus: Evocation and Spell Specialization, along with Potent Magic. It may be quite powerful to be able to spam a 9d6 fire attack, that does 4d6 to another nearby enemy, and then 2d6 to another one.
For defence, given your limited number of spells, I'd consider just grabbing a scroll of Mage Armor, then taking Vanish as a prepared spell. Not sure I could justify using one of your two 2nd level slots for it, but Mirror Image is a major impediment to melee enemies.
Because feats might be quite important here (Spell Focus, Spell Specialization, Extra Traits, etc), you may want to consider a Human over Peri-Blooded Aasimar.
As for exploits, I think Potent Magic is obvious. Bloodline Development: Arcane to get an Arcane Bond and the ability to pop off any spell in your spellbook is super solid and adds to your flexibility....
Problem I have with Create Pit is that it's a Reflex Save, which the melees are bound to be good at, and the casters could simply use Levitate to either avoid it entirely or ascend from the pit. At best, Create Pit ties up Martials if they roll bad (though they'll all have good climb, since they'll have light or medium armor), and either slightly inconveniences or simply doesn't work on enemy spellcasters. The application just doesn't seem to be there, since I'm expecting people to be buying the Big 6 in some manner (which means Cloaks of Resistance +2 are quite likely), or even taking feats like Iron Will.
Grease has a similar problem, but it has better applications (say a spellcaster has a Rod/Wand out, or the Melee has a scary weapon that should be out of their hands). It's also only a first level spell, so it's not eating up all of my 2nd level spell slots; definitely worth a memorization.
Glitterdust is great anti-invisibility/stealth, but its duration and range is quite limited, whereas spells like Blindness are permanent, and at this level, with the class selections as well as favorable targets being the highest priority and easiest to affect, there is no counter.
Humans can take Darkvision as a racial trait (and I can certainly count on enemies to take it if they are human). If I was going to go this route, Fog Cloud would be the smarter option, since it screws all of their senses over, and they can't see 5 feet in front of their faces; it does make me consider Obscuring Mist in the event a Slayer sneaks up on me and I don't have Vanish going.
I did consider the Blaster route, but Slayers and Brawlers will have good saves against my blasts, and the enemy team can use similar tactics to what I plan to employ to take me down before I even get the chance to blast them.
Scroll of Mage Armor and Mirror Images would be a good idea, but I won't exactly have much time to buff, plus I'll need things like See Invisibility and to cast Vanish at some point so the bad guys can't get to me before they get the chance.
Good point on the Human race, especially since I can nab Darkvision in exchange for 5 skill points, still get my Intelligence boost, and have a feat to spend on other important things.
I imagine if I try to use Trait abusing shenanigans that they're going to rule that they won't stack for whatever reason, meaning the cookie cutter options (Reactionary and Indomitable Faith) are going to be the go-to choices, assuming I take the feat (which I very well might).
@ Dastis: As far as actual time to buff, no. But, there will most likely be obstacles and distance between us and the other team, so the time to buff will be at that point in the session.
I'll be posting a rough draft of the build in a couple of hours.
Eh, the best combos I know for this level range are Spectral Hand + Aboleth Lung and Darkvision + Darkness. Really, your WBL for a one shot like this is probably best spent on scrolls, potions, and various alchemical shenanigans.
As for race I'd go Sylph. Because Obscuring Mist + Cloud Gazer can ruin many a well laid plan and noone can afford goz masks at this level.
I'd invest in a Handy Haversack and take Potion Glutton. Action economy will probably be at a premium here at crunch time.
So my Arcanist build would look something like...
Sylph
1 Cloud Gazer
3 Potion Glutton
5 Additional Traits (Reactionary, Desperate Focus)
If not Sylph then
Human
1 Potion Glutton
Bonus Skill Focus (heal)
3 Additional Traits (Reactionary, Desperate Focus)
5 Eldritch Heritage: Daemon (Wasting Ray is incredibly powerful in cases like this)
Alright, so here's a Rough Draft:
N Human Arcanist 5
Senses Perception +6, Darkvision (60 ft.)
Attributes (15 Point Buy)
Strength 8 (7 + 1)
Dexterity 12
Constitution 12
Intelligence 22 (18 + 2 + 2)
Wisdom 12
Charisma 7
Spells Memorized
0th (6 spells, DC 16)
-Detect Magic
-Light
-Flare
-Touch of Fatigue
-Prestidigitation
-Acid Splash
1st (6/day, DC 17)
-Vanish
-Grease
-Shadow Trap
-Ray of Enfeeblement
2nd (5/day, DC 18)
-Blindness/Deafness
-Haunting Mists
Spellbook
0th - All
1st - 14 Spells (8 Base + 2/level until 3rd) (Vanish, Grease, Shadow Trap, Ray of Enfeeblement, Obscuring Mist, Snowball, Stone Shield, Bungle, Charm Person, Expeditious Retreat, Burning Disarm, Color Spray, Ear-Piercing Scream, Feather Fall)
2nd - 4 Spells (2/level beyond 4th) (Blindness/Deafness, Haunting Mists, Glitterdust, False Life)
Feats
1. Spell Focus (Necromancy), Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
3. Additional Traits
5. Combat Casting?
Traits
1. Lore Seeker (Blindness/Deafness, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shadow Trap)
2. Reactionary
Exploits[b]
Arcane Reservoir - 8 Points
1. Potent Magic
3. Dimensional Slide
5. Bloodline Development (Arcane)
[b]Equipment
-Headband of Intelligence +2 (4,000)
-Cloak of Resistance +1 (1,000)
-Ring of Protection +1 (2,000)
-Haramaki
-Scroll of Mage Armor (25)
-Scroll of Shield CL 3 (75)
-Scroll of See Invisibility (150)
-Scroll of Mirror Images (150)
-Light Crossbow
-Handy Haversack (2,000)
Total Cost 9,325 Gold
Skills
2 Base + 6 Intelligence = 8 X 5 Levels = 40 Skill Ranks
Acrobatics MAX (+6)
Climb MAX (+4)
Escape Artist MAX (+6)
Perception MAX (+6)
Spellcraft MAX (+14)
Stealth MAX (+6)
Swim MAX (+4)
Use Magic Device MAX (+6)
Tactics
-Buff before engaging. If little wiggle room is provided, casting Vanish and following up with using scrolls as necessary, proceeding to get into position of enemy spellcasters.
-Cast Blindness on the enemy Arcanist, Oracle, and Bard. (DC = 23)
-Cast Shadow Trap followed by Ray of Enfeeblement on the Slayer and Brawler. (DC = 20/22)
My current thoughts:
-I'm unsure as to whether Combat Casting would be worthwhile. Granted, concentration checks are important if I'm ever threatened, but the benefit of Dimensional Slide will more than likely save me from any impending threat, not to mention Mirror Images and the like will be active, meaning I could potentially get rid of that feat for something else. The question is what feat?
-I have a little over 1,000 gold left to spend, so I'm unsure as to what to spend it on; I'd prefer not to have more scrolls, so anything that I can spend 1,000 gold on that works towards something new that stacks with my current schtick or improves my current schtick further would be appreciated.
-Do I have a good spell selection in relation to my Arcane Bond ability to cast that one spell that I could use? What other spells would you recommend (over the ones that I have currently selected)?
-Any other questions/concerns about my build choices?
Unless you really need the skill points, you're better off with potions or scrolls of Fox's Cunning than spending almost half your WBL on a headband that gives a smaller INT bonus.
Additionally you can ditch the cloak and ring for scrolls or potions of Extended Stunning Barrier.
With all the money you save you can start filling out your inventory with more scrolls, potions, and alchemical whatnots. This is a one shot, so consumables are literally your best bang for your buck.
Ray of enfeeblement & shadow trap have close range - 40' counting lore seeker. Well within charge range. How likely do you think it is that you'll get to cast these without being minced? A question not a certainty, it depends how the GM likes to run things, with close crowded maps or wide open ones. If it's the latter you might prefer reach spell to combat casting.
Considering how few items you have it might be as useful to get an adventurer's sash as a handy haversack, and 20 gp vs. 2000 gp is a strong argument for the sash.
An aegis of recovery is a good idea if you don't get the haversack. Also, if you need to put some distance between yourself and an enemy, a quick runner's shirt is still useful even in its nerfed form.
Unless you really need the skill points, you're better off with potions or scrolls of Fox's Cunning than spending almost half your WBL on a headband that gives a smaller INT bonus.
Additionally you can ditch the cloak and ring for scrolls or potions of Extended Stunning Barrier.
With all the money you save you can start filling out your inventory with more scrolls, potions, and alchemical whatnots. This is a one shot, so consumables are literally your best bang for your buck.
It's a matter of action economy; sure, I can get all of the consumables, and it'll spare me even more money for even more varied benefits. But each time I need to use one of those same consumables, that's an entire round down the drain, and I only get to use one consumable at a given time. So, if I buy 12 scrolls or potions, that's 12 rounds I'm spending just to use them and super-power myself; by that time, all of my teammates will be dead, and they'll be pounding at my door, so saying "Consumables are the answer" isn't entirely correct.
I also need a Ring or Amulet so that I can utilize my Arcane Bond from my Bloodline Development; 1 spell from my entire spellbook that I can cast at any time is invaluable in a game like this, where most anything can happen, so it's not like I want to spend a large portion of my WBL when I can get a spell that does the same thing for the purposes of what I need it for, except for a lot cheaper. (It also doesn't require me to burn a round to use them, and I might not even need the entire effect.)
@ avr: I'll most likely be using cover and concealment to my advantage, meaning Charging would be off the table, though Double Moves can make me sweat a little.
I have no clue what an Adventurer's Sash is. Link?
I also forget what an Aegis of Recovery does. Sounds like it's useful, though...
@ Matt2VK: Already got it.
Good points on spell selections in response to my post, Darksol. I don't really dispute any of that, and you've given it some good thought. I'm not sure Fog Cloud is great though, unless you use something to see through it. Otherwise you're hampering yourself and your allies as much as anyone else. I do expect to see an Oracle with the Waves mystery using those things though!
For items, I'd have a look at some of those handy lesser Talismans.
Danger Sense and Freedom are nice for this sort of fight.
As for Combat Casting, I agree that it isn't crucial given your access to Dimensional Slide. Not sure what I'd replace it with, and don;t have a lot of time to review your spell list, but worth considering if you have any Necormancy spells that would benefit from a caster level boost via Spell Specialization. Even Improved Initiative might be a better option, as boring as it might be.
Adventurer's Sash
Aegis of Recovery
If neither Reach Spell nor Combat Casting is likely to matter you might consider Fleeting Spell. Dismissing a spell of yours as a swift action can be handy for your side to cross or see thru an area which the enemy had assumed blocked. Tho' you don't have many such, just the mist spells.
Good points on spell selections in response to my post, Darksol. I don't really dispute any of that, and you've given it some good thought. I'm not sure Fog Cloud is great though, unless you use something to see through it. Otherwise you're hampering yourself and your allies as much as anyone else. I do expect to see an Oracle with the Waves mystery using those things though!
Would not Silent Image work well enough? They would have to interact with it and your allies can fire out from within.
Would not Will be a good save to target?
Arcanist, Oracle, Brawler, Slayer, Bard
on a 15 point buy I do not see the Brawler or Slayer having a good will save and Color Spray can keep them stunned for a round each. Being Stun locked would give your side the chance to take down the enemies with 2/5 of their side unable to respond. You should win on action economy. Also there is no low level stun removal. Just a reminder of what Stunned does
A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a –2 penalty to AC, and loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any).
Attackers receive a +4 bonus on attack rolls to perform combat maneuvers against a stunned opponent.
Not too bad when the Slayer has to stop and pick up his weapon. And your Slayer can get SA on any Stunned enemy without flanking.
Another thing I would like to point out is a Toppling Magic Missile user who just keeps the other team tripped up. Only the Arcanist can shield block it and most likely will not think to grab that spell opting out for Mirror Image as the defensive spell of choice.
Good points on spell selections in response to my post, Darksol. I don't really dispute any of that, and you've given it some good thought. I'm not sure Fog Cloud is great though, unless you use something to see through it. Otherwise you're hampering yourself and your allies as much as anyone else. I do expect to see an Oracle with the Waves mystery using those things though!Would not Silent Image work well enough? They would have to interact with it and your allies can fire out from within.
Would not Will be a good save to target?
It could work, though personally I'd be hesitant to try to run illusion spells against other PCs. Too much is left to subjectivity, and there is tons of room for clever, but metagamey responses. For example, you create a Silent Image of a bear, and your enemy says: "Wow, that looks really scary. But what sort of smell is coming across? Oh, no smell? I roll to disbelieve."
I don't think your allies can auto-pass the illusion save either, though you could probably engineer a +4 bonus for them.
Otherwise, I think Will is a reasonable save to target, for the reasons zza ni mentioned.
Good points on spell selections in response to my post, Darksol. I don't really dispute any of that, and you've given it some good thought. I'm not sure Fog Cloud is great though, unless you use something to see through it. Otherwise you're hampering yourself and your allies as much as anyone else. I do expect to see an Oracle with the Waves mystery using those things though!
For items, I'd have a look at some of those handy lesser Talismans.
Danger Sense and Freedom are nice for this sort of fight.As for Combat Casting, I agree that it isn't crucial given your access to Dimensional Slide. Not sure what I'd replace it with, and don;t have a lot of time to review your spell list, but worth considering if you have any Necormancy spells that would benefit from a caster level boost via Spell Specialization. Even Improved Initiative might be a better option, as boring as it might be.
It might not be, but Fog Cloud is a two way street; if I find that their positioning is too good, Fog Cloud will force them to move. Good mention on the Waves mystery, that's something that I'll need to watch for. However, since Oracles have multiple solid PVP options, the odds of them choosing the Waves mystery is fairly slim.
The lesser talismans do have some promise to them, but remember the rule of no 3rd level spells permitted from any source (which is why I didn't simply opt for a bunch of Fly scrolls and let my teammates pick their battles). So, because Danger Sense and Freedom actually function as the spell counterparts, they'd be illegal for use. Several of the others are still feasible though, and certainly worth the cash.
I did consider Improved Initiative, but spending a feat just to make sure I buff first may not be the greatest investment. I'm even leery of taking Reactionary for that very same reason, because unless we're being put right in front of each other, Initiative isn't going to be that big of a deal, and I can fairly easily plan around the formation. (Same can be said for my teammates, if we come up with some combination attacks.) So, I may change Reactionary as well, and simply let the dice fall. The question then stems as to what other options are worthwhile.
Spell Specialization for Ray of Enfeeblement along with Potent Magic and the Lore Seeker trait gives me CL 10, which means 1D6+5 Strength damage/penalty, which is just killer. The problem stems with my meager to-hit (even if it's Touch, they will have decent Dexterity), meaning it's possible to waste my action economy.
@ avr: Good catch with the Adventurer's Sash; that saves me a lot of cash, and because it's regular gear, it doesn't cost a dime. The question now becomes what I should do with the excess cash (which is slightly over 3,000 gold). The Aegis of Recovery is alright, but I don't expect to get a whole lot of use out of it, so maybe something else?
Nice suggestion with the Fleeting Spell though, especially since Dispel Magic doesn't exist at this level. (Well, it does, but not in this instance.)
@ Louise Bishop: Silent Image can be easily disbelieved, as Steel Refrain has pointed out, and in this instance, can really only be useful in distracting melee players with fake allies (which requires Concentration, leaving me as a sitting duck for the enemy spellcaster to nab me). In addition, summoning creatures (even illusory ones) is illegal, and can't be done, as well as the pointlessness of making an obviously false illusion (such as arrows firing through a wall).
Will Saves are a good target, but the Oracle, Bard, and Arcanist have good Will Saves, and they are my primary threat; spells like Blindness are their kryptonite, and because there is no Remove Curse available to them, a failed save means they're effectively useless for the entire match. (It's a dick move, but if the enemy Arcanist will be who I think it is, I except him to be just as much of a dick; fighting fire with fire and all that.)
I do have Ray of Enfeeblement, which is a Will Save or they suffer 1D6+3 Strength penalty. While it's not damage, I can effectively turn them into wet noodles. I also have Color Spray, which I can use with my Arcane Bond if needed. Good catch on the Stunned condition, though, I'll remind my party's Slayer about that if it comes up. (Same benefit would apply to a Blinded enemy, too.)
Toppling Metamagic would be banned, because it creates a Trip effect, which we've banned all forms of Tripping in this match. (Again, don't ask why.)
Ray of Enfeeblement is a Fortitutde partial, not a will save.
Sucks people are so open ended on illusions. My DM would not allow such easy meta disbelief. Fogs or fake rocks do not smell and they would need the perception to actually smell it. Seems some groups are hella liberal on interpretation. Mine is rather strict on interaction.
In some ways I agree, Louise, though I think it is important to balance out illusions to ensure they don't run roughshod over the game. To allow a 1st level spell to dominate without much restriction seems to run too liberally for me. I'm a fun home game I can see promoting player creativity, but I don't think a GM could be so liberal in this particular scenario
But I don't want to derail the thread into that sort of discussion. For Darksol, I think you have a very solid plan and concept. I think Spell Specialization for Ray of Enfeeblement is better than Combat Casting for you. I also feel I nitiative is more important than you, I think. I like the idea of being able to start off and set the tempo, rather than being reactive.
Using Vanish to go invisible off the jump and then position yourself to strike seems like a good start. If the enemy has to use an invisibility counter to react, well, you've brought that out. If not, or if it doesn't take down your invisibility .. hammer someone flat footed with a jacked up ray of enfeeblement.
Huh, I thought it was a Will Save. Whoops. Oh well, it's an after-thought, so I'm not too concerned about that. Also, a DC 20/22 Fortitude Save isn't exactly easy, even if they have 14 Constitution and a Cloak of Resistance +2 (which gives them ~+8 to the check).
It's a PVP session, meaning there is no GM to adjudicate how illusions work, and as such, the RAW is the LAW. So, if I make a Red Dragon (which is disallowed), it's an obvious illusion, and therefore would do nothing but waste my action economy. Similarly, if a wall has arrows coming out with no indication of arrow slits or holes to come from, that will obviously be considered an illusion that they can simply ignore.
Vanish on others may not be a bad idea, but it depends on how the battle initiates.
I know of the staff, but it takes away half of my WBL. A wand of the same CL would be half the price, and equally as effective. But, it's honestly not that high of priority; the #1 priority is making the spellcasters permanently blinded (with no way of removing or countering it), and then follow up with sapping the strength of the martials.
No, I cannot buy higher level scrolls. I mentioned this in the OP, and I've said this multiple times already, so let me make it abundantly clear now:
ANY SPELL OF THIRD LEVEL OR HIGHER IS NOT ALLOWED, IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM.
Got that? No Scrolls, No Wands, No Potions, No Anything, can be higher than Second Level. I can't use Scrolls of Fly, I can't use Potions of Haste, I can't use Wands of Fireball, and so on. Suggesting things that I can't use is like suggesting non-Core options for a Core-only campaign, in that it helps nobody and just creates frustration.
Believe me, those were one of the first things that I thought of, but because they're illegal, I can't use that sort of cheese to my advantage. (And even if I did, I'm almost certain the other Arcanist would've done so before I thought of it, and he'd be shot down too.)
In that case, an Evocation specialist would be great here, actually. Resist Energy, Communal is a 3rd level spell, thus prohibited.
This is a team vs team battle, so being able to damage the whole team at once is a great idea since group healing lags behind group damage. Even if the enemy has a Life Oracle w/ Channel Energy, 3d6 is the max they can heal, while you should be dealing 5d6+, on top of the fact that you'd basically be negating another full caster's standard action with your own while still doing at least SOME damage.
On the other hand, team buffs would also be highly useful in this scenario, and can be cast while Invisible. Note that at this level, the only counterplay to Invisibility is "See Invisible" which is personal-only, thus able to completely negate the Slayer & Brawler unless their casters get off a perfectly placed Glitterdust, which likely requires 2 caster actions (needing to cast See Invisiblity first) in order to counter your 1 action.
You could abuse Samsaran's Mystic Past Life in order to grab Haste as a level 2 spell from the Summoner list, but that's likely to cause some issues.
The irony there is that we're allowing a Bard to cast Heroism, because it's a 2nd level spell for them. (I'm also expecting the Bard to be the one spending his time buffing the others, not me; Invisibility and Vanish are also on his spell list.) So, I could theoretically nab Haste as a 2nd level spell.
Of course, like you said, Haste can cause issues due to how overpowered it is. (We actually banned Haste and Slow at our own table due to how many times players have to cast it every fight.) As well as the fact that we've only played with a Summoner once (and since then it's been banned at our table).
So, while it's a good idea, I'd rather not invoke the entire wrath of my table, since I have a feeling causing permanent Blindness is perhaps the biggest dick move I've ever done in a given PVP session. (Again, however, since I suspect the enemy Arcanist is going to be just as much of a dick, fighting fire with fire will be a necessity.)
Smoked goggles may be useful if the other arcanist is throwing around color sprays, which is a fairly dickish spell against 5th level characters. Put them on when you learn that's the case, not before.
A belt of tumbling is +4 acrobatics for 800 gp. It's usually irrelevant because people are saving up for a belt which improves their favourite physical stat, but that's not a problem here.
Or you could spend all 3000 gp on a lesser, +1 metamagic rod. Selective spell, reach spell, bouncing spell or whatever.
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Or you could spend all 3000 gp on a lesser, +1 metamagic rod. Selective spell, reach spell, bouncing spell or whatever.
Reach metamagic would be a nice combination with spells like Touch of Gracelessness and Touch of Idiocy, though then you're splitting your spell schools and missing out on the Spell Focus bonus to save DCs that your necromancy spells are getting (an issue for Touch of Gracelessness). But combining with Ghoul Touch could be super mean.
Though I also think Blindness is a perfectly horrible trick as it is.
Smoked goggles may be useful if the other arcanist is throwing around color sprays, which is a fairly dickish spell against 5th level characters. Put them on when you learn that's the case, not before.
A belt of tumbling is +4 acrobatics for 800 gp. It's usually irrelevant because people are saving up for a belt which improves their favourite physical stat, but that's not a problem here.
Or you could spend all 3000 gp on a lesser, +1 metamagic rod. Selective spell, reach spell, bouncing spell or whatever.
I imagine the enemy Arcanist will likely view me as an equivalent target, and he will have similar abilities to mine (since, if the enemy Arcanist will be who I think it will be, he'll be similarly optimized). So, Color Spray is certainly viable, and since the Goggles are basic gear, I'm definitely going to have a pair on that I can "toggle" on/off as a move action of some sort, which is reasonable.
Belt of Tumbling could be useful, especially if a melee gets in my face before I can react to them; Dimensional Slide only lets me teleport, it doesn't eliminate the AoOs for movement to/from my chosen destination (i.e. the 5 feet needed to move), so it will be helpful.
As for the Metamagic Rods: Selective is largely irrelevant, since my forte will be single target spells (which don't usually require cover, I might add). Reach spell is meh for touch spells (since people pointed out even Close range spells will be a problem), and not worth the price for the few spells I'll be using them for. Bouncing can be helpful, but I imagine they'll be spread out too much for it to matter. (Also, my Save DCs will be so high, I shouldn't expect them to actually make the saves.)
@ Steel Refrain: It's perhaps the most overpowered tactic. A successful Blindness spell means that enemy can't hardly fight unless they get some ability with Blindsight, Tremorsense, and so on (which is practically impossible to get at this level, I might add). If I can cast Blindness on all 5 enemies, the match will be over, and the ensuing battle will be a joke.
I have a feeling that with this in mind, the rules might include a way for them to reduce/remove the Blindness effect, making it last rounds per CL, or having some arena prop that allows characters to remove a given debuff. But, until I'm given a rules update with that, I have no qualms with it (especially since the enemy team will likewise use identical tactics).
Bump.
I haven't received any rules adjustments from the referee yet, so the rules are still as they stand currently.
Here's Mr. Jerkpants V2.
Senses Perception +6, Darkvision (60 ft.)
Attributes (15 Point Buy)
Strength 8 (7 + 1)
Dexterity 12
Constitution 12
Intelligence 22 (18 + 2 + 2)
Wisdom 12
Charisma 7
Spells Memorized
0th (6 spells, DC 16)
-Detect Magic
-Light
-Flare
-Touch of Fatigue
-Prestidigitation
-Acid Splash
1st (6/day, DC 17)
-Vanish
-Grease
-Shadow Trap
-Ray of Enfeeblement
2nd (5/day, DC 18)
-Blindness/Deafness
-Haunting Mists
-Glitterdust
Spellbook
0th - All
1st - 14 Spells (8 Base + 2/level until 3rd) (Vanish, Grease, Shadow Trap, Ray of Enfeeblement, Obscuring Mist, Snowball, Stone Shield, Bungle, Charm Person, Expeditious Retreat, Burning Disarm, Color Spray, Ear-Piercing Scream, Feather Fall)
2nd - 4 Spells (2/level beyond 4th) (Blindness/Deafness, Haunting Mists, Glitterdust, False Life)
Feats
1. Spell Focus (Necromancy), Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
3. Additional Traits
5. Expanded Preparation (Glitterdust)
Traits
1. Lore Seeker (Blindness/Deafness, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shadow Trap)
2. Reactionary?
Exploits
Arcane Reservoir - 8 Points
1. Potent Magic
3. Dimensional Slide
5. Bloodline Development (Arcane)
Equipment
-Headband of Intelligence +2 (4,000)
-Cloak of Resistance +1 (1,000)
-Ring of Protection +1 (2,000) [ARCANE BOND]
-Spell Component Pouch X3
-Haramaki
-Scroll of Mage Armor (25)
-Scroll of Shield CL 3 (75)
-Scroll of See Invisibility (150)
-Scroll of Mirror Images (150)
-Light Crossbow w/ 20 Bolts
-Adventurer's Sash (4 Scrolls, 1 Potion)
-Quick Runner's Shirt (1,000)
-Potion of Cure Light Wounds (50)
-Smoked Goggles
-Boots of the Cat (1,000)
-Armbands of the Brawler (500)
Total Cost 9,875 Gold
Skills
2 Base + 6 Intelligence = 8 X 5 Levels = 40 Skill Ranks
Acrobatics MAX (+6)
Climb MAX (+4)
Escape Artist MAX (+6)
Perception MAX (+6)
Spellcraft MAX (+14)
Stealth MAX (+6)
Swim MAX (+4)
Use Magic Device MAX (+6)
Notable Changes:
-Switched Combat Casting feat with Expanded Preparation. This gives me 3 2nd level spells to cast instead of 2 (without using my Arcane Bloodline ability), which is a major game-changer.
-Removed the Handy Haversack. Although it's useful to draw without provocation, I shouldn't be caught in a situation that provokes unless I'm next to an Arcanist with Improved Unarmed Strike (or some other weapon). Freed up over 2,000 gold to spend on other things.
-Acquired a Quick Runner's Shirt (Hit and Run tactics to take the enemy Arcanist out of the fight without any reaction time is awesome), Boots of the Cat (never know if I'll be shoved off somewhere, or if I run out of Arcane Reservoir for Dimensional Slide), Armbands of the Brawler (the ability to escape Grapples helps, especially against the enemy Brawler), and a Potion of Cure Light Wounds (in the event I'm affected with Bleed and I can't heal myself).
-Added Smoked Goggles, in the event I'm somehow affected with stuff like Color Spray, and 3 Spell Component Pouches, in case anyone gets trigger happy with Stealing/Sundering.
As an addendum, one of the Bard players is at a crossroads on how to build his PC, and he asked me for some advice as to what he should specialize in. Any ideas you guys wanna throw at me that I can give to him (so that it doesn't feel like I'm making his character for him)?
I might consider an Arrowsong Minstrel for ranged support. Free Precise Strike at 2nd level is nice, and picking up Gravity Bow also helps with damage, all while passing out bonuses via Inspire Courage. Yeah he'll have less spells, but I think the ranged damage will be a great addition to the group.
Great archetype suggestion. The reduced spells sucks, but access to specific Sorcerer/Wizard spells can be pretty powerful.
The difficult part will be managing casting (though only a 12 is absolutely required, a 14 will be nice to have for bonus spells and for Sorcerer/Wizard options), the 3/4 BAB (which means more self-buffing is required), and the Strength/Dexterity debacle (how much more Strength/Dexterity should he have over the other)?
Also keep in mind that the Bard PC I'm suggesting may not even be in my group.
I'd go with CHA 14, favour DEX slightly over STR (relying on Gravity Bow to help make up the difference in damage) for the bonus to hit, though Inspire Courage will also help with both, while Heroism could help with to hit. Allegro might also be a worthwhile buff to increase the number of arrows being fired. Because the focus is on being an archer, the reduction in spell casting is less painful, as many rounds will be spent shooting arrows rather than casting spells.
Just one option, but for this particular scenario I think it works, and should fit in okay with most other builds. It can even counterspell effectively (by which I mean ready an action to shoot anything that casts a spell, of course). :P
Going full save-or-suck caster also works as Nicholas suggests. Could even use the same Blindness/Deafness tactic you're looking at, and/or maybe Gillterdust. Suggestion could also be decent if that doesn't count as a 3rd level spell for your rules.
I'll suggest the Arrow Minstrel to the player, as well as some of the options you've guys given.
I have a feeling the player wouldn't have fun with a Save/Suck sort of character. Granted, Save/Suck is probably the best approach, this isn't a character that I'll be playing, so...
If you want to focus on blindness get full plate, blindness doesn't have any somatic components, so you can where it with out penalty and they probably won't think you're an arcanist.
Blindness with the two metamagic reducing traits for a free persistent spell seems nice.
For the bard how does your DM rule Suggestion? If they're lenient a bard with 22 cha after +2 item will have 4 level 2 spells a day, which can be used as suggestions to make their opponents kill each other.
Problem with wearing Full Plate means that I can't use my other spells either (Grease, Vanish, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shadow Trap). Also, they'll know I'm an Arcanist when they see me casting spells, and/or coming out of Invisibility.
Other problem with the Metamagic Reducers is that the referee will most likely rule that they won't stack, and that's based on other stuff I've seen him rule on before that were similar to this (Two traits offering benefits to a single attribute that would normally stack was denied because the effects offered came from a trait).
You influence the actions of the target creature by suggesting a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two). The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable.
Asking the creature to do some obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the spell.The suggested course of activity can continue for the entire duration. If the suggested activity can be completed in a shorter time, the spell ends when the subject finishes what it was asked to do. You can instead specify conditions that will trigger a special activity during the duration. If the condition is not met before the spell duration expires, the activity is not performed.
A very reasonable suggestion causes the save to be made with a penalty (such as -1 or -2).
Based on the bolded part, I'm fairly certain the referee will not allow Suggestion to make allies attack enemies, since the goal of the PVP is to win with your friends, and attacking allies is obviously harmful to that purpose.
At least, not without some sort of illusion spell confusing them into thinking they're doing the right thing, which I imagine would be perfectly legal. But, expecting myself (or the other Arcanist) to have Illusion specialization is slim, and also not a realistic expectation.
Granted, it can be used to effectively take enemies out of the fight (or at the very least, force horrible tactics) with proper wording (such as "Lie in wait for the enemy; stay prone and behind cover until the enemy is on top of you"), that falls into Save/Suck territory, something which as I've said before, the player isn't particularly interested in.
I sent the information over to the player. He'll be looking at the options given and he'll send me a rough draft of the character soon. I'll give him some other critiques, but also post it on here for any suggestions I may miss.
You could use that race that gets mystic past life and cast level 2 summoner spells. I guess it's just haste and slow but it's funny.
I believe that we're defaulting to Unchained versions of characters and abilities (which is what we did with our last PVP session), so the referee will most likely veto any attempt to get Haste/Slow as a 2nd level spell.
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From what I see your stats sum to 17 points, not 15. For 15 point buy I'd go with:
7 14 14 17+2 10 7, with the 4th level increment in Int.
Also, you can't get the Ring of Protection at half the cost, since Arcane Bond lets you upgrade your bonded object as if you had the relevant craft feat only if your level is high enough. Forge Rings require CL 7, so you don't get it. I suggest you pick an amulet for a natural armor bonus instead.
If you can spare 1k, you could buy a mithral buckler as well (maybe instead of the Boots of the Cat, which can be easily duplicated by Feather Fall).
Hmm, I thought I did the math right, but thanks for clearing that up. I'll just drop my Wisdom down to 10 (since I have the good Will save progression), no big deal.
Ring of Protection +1 costs 2,000 gold, not 4,000 gold, so I paid full price for it. I just simply made it my Arcane Bond for the class feature, and that's it.
Good call on the Amulet, though, since I could beef up the Amulet for half the price, and save me 1,000 gold for a Wand or something.
Mithril Buckler won't compare to the Shield spell. Objectively, I get why you'd take a Mithril Buckler, but for a one-shot PVP it's not worth it.
Boots of the Cat was honestly something I bought just to buy. I highly doubt the enemy is going to bother pushing me off the ledge when they can just as easily kill me (presumably). I could scrap that, and combined with the Amulet cost, it'd save me 2,000 gold to spend. Same goes for the Armbands (though being grappled by the enemy Brawler is certainly a likely outcome).
With that being said, I'll have 2,500 gold to spend, so if anyone has any bright ideas on what to spend on it with (no standard action consumables, preferably), I'm open to it.
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Well, you still need to spend 1000gp for the Amulet of Natural Armor +1, which leaves you ~1625gp. If you manage to squeeze other ~400gp in you might be able to afford the ring as well.
A Pearl of Power (1000gp) might be useful (I'm not sure if Arcanists are considered prepared casters though; if not, Runestones of Power are the spontaneous equivalent, but cost 2000gp).
Otherwise you might want to check on Ioun Stones. Cracked Vibrant Purple Prism (2000gp) lets you store one 1 level spell like a Ring of Spell Storing. Other stones give you +1 to various skills for only 200gp each: you could buy a bunch of them to bump up all your skills by +1.
In case you wanted to buy a wand of a spell of level 2 (or more), consider make it your bonded object, since it can save you more than 2000gp.
Finally, your stats were right before, sorry :) but you should consider putting a 10 in Wis and a 17 on Int and increase it at 4th level rather than starting with 18. You would end up with the same total Int score (22), but you would also have +2 to Dex and Con (so higher AC, more HPs and higher saves).
The 2,500 would be factoring in removing the Boots of the Cat, the Armbands, and replacing the Ring with the Amulet, not including the amount of money I'd have left over prior to any of this, which can easily put me over 3K to spend.
I'd say they are spontaneous. Sure, they have a spellbook to prepare spells, but from those spells that are prepared, they cast them spontaneously. That being said, I think having 6 1st level spells is more than enough, especially with all of the scrolls I currently have, so while a Runestone of Power is worthwhile in the long run, it's not worth it for a one-shot.
Hmmm, I'm not sure about making my Wand a bonded object. While we banned Trip, Disarm and Sunder tactics are certainly applicable, and if anyone decides my Wand should go bye-bye with a certain spell or action, that will put me in a major bind. Making it my Amulet or Ring would make such tactics a lot less likely to happen.
Though, I could make the Wand of a 1st level Divine spell, and take the Dangerously Curious trait so that Use Magic Device keys off of Intelligence (and not Charisma) in place of Reactionary. The question boils down to what spell I'd want.
Good suggestion on the attribute allocation, since the Strength loss from 8 to 7 is negligible due to carrying capacity subjects. I'll post a quick revision soon enough.
Senses Perception +6, Darkvision (60 ft.)
Attributes (15 Point Buy)
Strength 7
Dexterity 14
Constitution 13
Intelligence 22 (17 + 1 + 2 + 2)
Wisdom 12
Charisma 7
Spells Memorized
0th (6 spells, DC 16)
-Detect Magic
-Light
-Flare
-Touch of Fatigue
-Prestidigitation
-Acid Splash
1st (6/day, DC 17)
-Vanish
-Grease
-Shadow Trap
-Ray of Enfeeblement
2nd (5/day, DC 18)
-Blindness/Deafness
-Haunting Mists
-Glitterdust
Spellbook
0th - All
1st - 14 Spells (8 Base + 2/level until 3rd) (Vanish, Grease, Shadow Trap, Ray of Enfeeblement, Obscuring Mist, Snowball, Stone Shield, Bungle, Charm Person, Expeditious Retreat, Burning Disarm, Color Spray, Ear-Piercing Scream, Feather Fall)
2nd - 4 Spells (2/level beyond 4th) (Blindness/Deafness, Haunting Mists, Glitterdust, False Life)
Feats
1. Spell Focus (Necromancy), Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
3. Additional Traits
5. Expanded Preparation (Glitterdust)
Traits
1. Lore Seeker (Blindness/Deafness, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shadow Trap)
2. Pragmatic Activator
Exploits
Arcane Reservoir - 8 Points
1. Potent Magic
3. Dimensional Slide
5. Bloodline Development (Arcane)
Equipment
-Headband of Intelligence +2 (4,000)
-Cloak of Resistance +1 (1,000)
-Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (1,000) [ARCANE BOND]
-Spell Component Pouch X3
-Haramaki
-Scroll of Mage Armor (25)
-Scroll of Shield CL 3 (75)
-Scroll of See Invisibility (150)
-Scroll of Mirror Images (150)
-Scroll of Remove Paralysis (150
-Light Crossbow w/ 20 Bolts
-Adventurer's Sash (5 Scrolls, 1 Potion)
-Quick Runner's Shirt (1,000)
-Potion of Cure Light Wounds (50)
-Smoked Goggles
Total Cost 7,600 Gold
Skills
2 Base + 6 Intelligence = 8 X 5 Levels = 40 Skill Ranks
Acrobatics MAX (+6)
Climb MAX (+4)
Escape Artist MAX (+6)
Perception MAX (+6)
Spellcraft MAX (+14)
Stealth MAX (+6)
Swim MAX (+4)
Use Magic Device MAX (+14)
I noticed that Remove Paralysis is on the Wizard Spell List, but is a 2nd level Cleric spell, so it'd be prudent for me to nab it as a Divine scroll to UMD in the event the enemy Oracle decides to go Hold-Person-happy on my teammates.
Are there any other Divine spells worth taking as a Scroll or even a Wand? Save-or-Suck/Die wouldn't be too effective.
**EDIT** I looked up the Dangerously Curious trait, but I found the one that did what I was looking for (Pragmatic Activator), so no big deal.
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Remove Fear, Bless, Liberating Command and, of course, Cure Light Wounds. However, except for CLW, I wouldn't bother to buy a wand for them. Liberating Command's best perk, that is being an immediate action, is wasted when you cast it from an item.
For the equipment, I would buy the Ring of Protection +1. Another option would have been to upgrade the Cloak of Resistance to +2, but it requires a net of 3000gp.
Well, we limited summons because there was a lot of cheap trickery to be done with consumable items that do just that. Hell, at this level I could buy a few scrolls of Summon Monster IX, create a Balor (or something), and have it absolutely destroy the enemy party as long as I didn't absolutely botch the Caster Level check. Because of crap like that, we banned summons. (Thankfully, the reason we banned them wasn't because of this same exact situation.)
The "no higher than level 2" spells rule was implemented to get players to think out of the box and not rely on common 3rd level spells like Haste and Fireball all the time. Also, because a lot of 3rd level spells are pretty overpowered.
As for fifth level, I don't think our group particularly appreciates higher level PVP, simply because of the Caster/Martial Disparity escalating exponentially past 10th level or so.
Regarding Races, Wyrwood wouldn't be allowed because it's an advanced race. Same goes for the Ghoran.
The Ifrit option wouldn't work simply because the enemy can be a Waves Oracle and wreck my whole plan. (By the way, one of the Oracle players asked me about how I'd make an Oracle well before the Bard player did, and I told him the Waves suggestion that was mentioned in this thread.) The plan, which, by the way, can be destroyed with a simple Area of Effect spell like Burning Hands or something.
Ok, what is the definition of "standardized race"? I was basically assuming anything in the Advanced Race Guide...
Also, why does a waves oracle "wreck my whole whole plan"? They can only use water sight to see through mist and fog, not smoke. At worst, they can only put you on an even footing with them by blinding you back with fog.
Area effect spells are not really going to cut it against a smoke radius that starts at 50' and gets bigger...
Standardized Races would include the Core, Featured, and Uncommon Races in the ARG. A Ghoran and Wyrwood are none of those things, which means they aren't available for choice. Same goes for things like Wyvaran and Ogres.
I'd rather not dump half my WBL on something that can easily backfire against my teammates as well.
And no, you cannot have mounts. Same goes for familiars or other similar creatures (which is why we didn't opt for Shaman in place of Oracle, even though I wanted to).