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I had stopped collecting X-men titles years before this whole Iceman is gay thing. I didn't really give a shit about it though. What did bug me was that the young X-men had even been there to begin with. It just seemed like a weird and piss-poor idea.
I'm collecting Doom as Infamous Iron Man, but not the new chick Iron Man. That's no knock on her. I don't know nor care about that character.
I like Doom though. He's always been one of my favorites. Granted, he's always better as a villain. If anyone's going to play a good anti-hero, though, it'd be him.
From what I've seen, the outing of young Bobby was really badly done. We have a young Jean who has already shown a willingness to use her telepathy to change the minds of her teammates, get annoyed with Bobby and then decides to out him. Despite his protests she all but decided he was gay just to stop him from annoying her. It was not the intent of the writter but it is very easy to interprit that scene as not simply her outing him thanks to telepathy but her actually changing his mind to be gay just out of annoyance from his previously sexist banter. I've even seen a few people who say flat out that "Jean made him Gay" and are apparently waiting for it to wear off.
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On the other hand we do get characters like America Chaves, who to the best of my knowledge, isn't replacing anyone. Concept wise she seems really neat and I like the look of the character. Her powers seem pretty cool as well. Over all she appears to be a very unique new character to me. (I might be wrong, again, not a huge marvel collector these days, so my knowledge on here is limited)
She is what I think people want to see when they say "Make New Characters instead of replacing the existing ones"
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You know I wasn't really that surprised by iceman being gay. he dated a lot of women and none of them made him happy. kind of a self-discovery thing... with unwanted assistance.
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She is what I think people want to see when they say "Make New Characters instead of replacing the existing ones"
Can't speak for other people, but as far as I'm concerned I could do very well without her. In fact, America #1 is the instance where I was kind of annoyed that the author was constantly harping about her sexuality while totally failing to present her as an interesting character in said book. This is what I call bad writing, contrary to most of the other instances we have talked about in this thread.
You know I wasn't really that surprised by iceman being gay. he dated a lot of women and none of them made him happy. kind of a self-discovery thing... with unwanted assistance.
Same here. I already had assumed that much for a very long time, so while I felt for him for the way Jean confronted him, I was actually more concerned about Jean's irresponsibility when it comes to her telepathic powers.
So here is something which can actually be explained in a way that is very consistent with Bobby's behaviour from the very start, that is brought out to the public in a well-written way (with the scene between Jean and Bobby having different layers of meaning and Bobby's sexuality already having been hinted at before) and still people are crying foul about it. And worse, people were already crying foul before even having read the scene (similar to Cap Hydra, where the backlash started and claims were made before the people even knew what the matter exactly was).
But yeah, there's absolutely, positively no way that homophobic tendencies could have something to do with this backlash (at least part of it).
She is what I think people want to see when they say "Make New Characters instead of replacing the existing ones"Can't speak for other people, but as far as I'm concerned I could do very well without her. In fact, America #1 is the instance where I was kind of annoyed that the author was constantly harping about her sexuality while totally failing to present her as an interesting character in said book. This is what I call bad writing, contrary to most of the other instances we have talked about in this thread.
You know I wasn't really that surprised by iceman being gay. he dated a lot of women and none of them made him happy. kind of a self-discovery thing... with unwanted assistance.Same here. I already had assumed that much for a very long time, so while I felt for him for the way Jean confronted him, I was actually more concerned about Jean's irresponsibility when it comes to her telepathic powers.
So here is something which can actually be explained in a way that is very consistent with Bobby's behaviour from the very start, that is brought out to the public in a well-written way (with the scene between Jean and Bobby having different layers of meaning and Bobby's sexuality already having been hinted at before) and still people are crying foul about it. And worse, people were already crying foul before even having read the scene (similar to Cap Hydra, where the backlash started and claims were made before the people even knew what the matter exactly was).
But yeah, there's absolutely, positively no way that homophobic tendencies could have something to do with this backlash (at least part of it).
Now jean definitely deserves some ire for her drastic misuse of her telepathy.
She is what I think people want to see when they say "Make New Characters instead of replacing the existing ones"Can't speak for other people, but as far as I'm concerned I could do very well without her. In fact, America #1 is the instance where I was kind of annoyed that the author was constantly harping about her sexuality while totally failing to present her as an interesting character in said book. This is what I call bad writing, contrary to most of the other instances we have talked about in this thread.
You know I wasn't really that surprised by iceman being gay. he dated a lot of women and none of them made him happy. kind of a self-discovery thing... with unwanted assistance.Same here. I already had assumed that much for a very long time, so while I felt for him for the way Jean confronted him, I was actually more concerned about Jean's irresponsibility when it comes to her telepathic powers.
So here is something which can actually be explained in a way that is very consistent with Bobby's behaviour from the very start, that is brought out to the public in a well-written way (with the scene between Jean and Bobby having different layers of meaning and Bobby's sexuality already having been hinted at before) and still people are crying foul about it. And worse, people were already crying foul before even having read the scene (similar to Cap Hydra, where the backlash started and claims were made before the people even knew what the matter exactly was).
But yeah, there's absolutely, positively no way that homophobic tendencies could have something to do with this backlash (at least part of it).
Kind of reminds me of when Obsidian came out at DC. This was a character who was mentally unstable for years, flipping from good guy to bad guy, never had a stable relationship, always at odds with his father.
Then one day out of the blue he shows up in Manhunter as the boyfriend to one of the supporting cast.
and he's happy. He's stable and he's finally comfortable as himself. Eventually he and his father finally have a nice sit down and talk and for a lot of fans of the character it was kind of a momenent of "Finally"
but of course then you had the other side who were furious about it.
Now jean definitely deserves some ire for her drastic misuse of her telepathy.She is what I think people want to see when they say "Make New Characters instead of replacing the existing ones"Can't speak for other people, but as far as I'm concerned I could do very well without her. In fact, America #1 is the instance where I was kind of annoyed that the author was constantly harping about her sexuality while totally failing to present her as an interesting character in said book. This is what I call bad writing, contrary to most of the other instances we have talked about in this thread.
You know I wasn't really that surprised by iceman being gay. he dated a lot of women and none of them made him happy. kind of a self-discovery thing... with unwanted assistance.Same here. I already had assumed that much for a very long time, so while I felt for him for the way Jean confronted him, I was actually more concerned about Jean's irresponsibility when it comes to her telepathic powers.
So here is something which can actually be explained in a way that is very consistent with Bobby's behaviour from the very start, that is brought out to the public in a well-written way (with the scene between Jean and Bobby having different layers of meaning and Bobby's sexuality already having been hinted at before) and still people are crying foul about it. And worse, people were already crying foul before even having read the scene (similar to Cap Hydra, where the backlash started and claims were made before the people even knew what the matter exactly was).
But yeah, there's absolutely, positively no way that homophobic tendencies could have something to do with this backlash (at least part of it).
But it was shown that all people around her was saying that she should not do that. And she got backlash for it too. For example than she read Lauras mind and was not well after that.
She just got telepathy activated and was using her new abilities a lot and not in the best way. But that is what showed she is not without errors. If she just was miss perfect we would have endless discussions why jean is a Mary Sue. Bendis has made many mistakes in his stories but this is not one of them.
And regarding the thread. Diversity is never a bad thing. I do not want the time back than you had Avengers in the same room in normal clothes you had trouble to see who was Cap, Hawkeye or Hank Pym for example. Or Mystique and Destiny living together but the writer could not say so.
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Nightcrawler was meant to be Destiny's and Raven's child but they had to change it. I always thought it would have been cool.
You know mystique seems like she should be the least racist/sexist character ever... except for the whole hating non-mutants.
You know I wasn't really that surprised by iceman being gay. he dated a lot of women and none of them made him happy. kind of a self-discovery thing... with unwanted assistance.
Are comic book characters ALLOWED to be happy? Or have stable, healthy relationships? Much less and?
Well spider man for sure isn't.
Some of them seem to live relatively positive life's.
Superman goes through hell but always seems pretty happy for the most part.
I'm thinking really hard and like no one else is coming to mind. wally west maybe? Oh The Tick!
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wally west maybe?
Not Wally. He was happily married, but then the powers that be at DC decided to banish him to the nether world of "let's pretend he never existed despite a pretty successful run", so they could bring Barry Allen back (not that I'm bitter). Since they've brought him back, he is no longer happily married.
You know I wasn't really that surprised by iceman being gay. he dated a lot of women and none of them made him happy. kind of a self-discovery thing... with unwanted assistance.Are comic book characters ALLOWED to be happy? Or have stable, healthy relationships? Much less and?
Honestly there dose seem to be a prevailing opinion that no they have to sacrifice happy lives to be heroes. In fact I think someone at marvel said that flat out at one point.
which is BS. Do Police or Firefighters have to sacrifice happy lives to do their job?
Superman seems pretty happy and stable right now. Happily married with a 10 year old son
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Honestly there dose seem to be a prevailing opinion that no they have to sacrifice happy lives to be heroes. In fact I think someone at marvel said that flat out at one point.which is BS. Do Police or Firefighters have to sacrifice happy lives to do their job?
Superman seems pretty happy and stable right now. Happily married with a 10 year old son
I think Superman is the exception at least until a writer decides to retcon it or ruin it.
I never liked the whole "readers don't like seeing comic characters in stable relationships" BS the writers try to use as a excuse as to why more heros don't have more relationships. Villains have relationships why would being a hero make it less easy. It's because the writers don't want to do it. I never quite forgave Marvel breaking up Peter Parker and Mary Jane. Starfire and Nightwing had a what 20-25 year relationship in real time and it mostly went nowhere for the longest time.
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I am more of a Gwen Stacy's person but I think the same as you.
There's nothing wrong to keep some superheroes with solid relationships. Liberal heros are good too but why don't have both?
I guess the «relationship of the week» works as well as the «combat of the week».
Yes, I think it's more the latter than the former nowadays.
I aggree that conflict is needed in a story, but also having something that remains unchanged on a character adds some consistence. A balance between getting a character into new situations and having her evolve and having the essence of the character unchanged is something difficult to have.
A character who doesn't change gets old soon and one who goes through too many changes (specially if they are poorly treated) lacks consistence.
But there are many ways to get that conflicts, so I guess there could be some characters that could have serious and lasting relationships while still attaining the desired conflict. And not all conflicts should end breaking up.
I miss some of the long lasting stablished couples.
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