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I took a long break from Pathfinder in general and painting minis and PFS in specific. As a semi-regular GM, I'd like to get back into both by painting up the critters I'm liable to use at the table. Once I get through my backlog of skeletons, zombies, goblins, and orcs, I'd like to paint up some iconics for pregen players and humanoid opponents as necessary.
With that in mind, I'd like to know if anyone has a feel for the most commonly-played iconics/pregens in PFS. Kyra's obvious, particularly when run by GMs for a three-person table, but beyond that, I'm less certain than I hope you guys might be.
Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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We usually offer Zadim (Slayer) as our first option if a new player wants to play. Easy mechanics, very effective.
Kyra if we're at a 3-player table and we've got everything covered except healing. Also a decent secondary hitter. Nothing amazing, but decent.
Oloch and Crowe see play sometimes if a player wants a melee focused character with some extra options.
I've been advocating Hakon recently. He's a very effective fighter, and has some good skills and spells.
Venture-Agent, Minnesota
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Here are my faves:
Adowyn (hunter) -- Archery and Animal Buddy
Quinn (investigator) -- Skill checks and Versatility
Hakon (skald) -- A bit of everything, fighting and spells
Crowe (bloodrager) -- Smash!
Oloch (warpriest) -- Smash and tiny bit of heal
Hayato (samurai) -- A fighter with social skills and a horse!
All of these have been just great!
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The CRB pregens are the ones that are most often being carried by the GMs and so see the most play. They're also generally quite easy to play.
The most popular by far, especially for bringing up a 3 player table, are Seelah and Kyra.
We very actively try to discourage the bad ones (Ninja, Gunslinger, Harsk) primarily.
Poor Harsk
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The wizards spellbooks thinner than the the sharp edge of reality
with valeros dual wielding calling miss is mere formality
The one to pick I fear I must prognosticate
with cons that low i doubt at all they can coagulate
Why anyone would play a toon this bad remains a mystery
I can't believe you'd tolerate them in your character history
with Merisiels lack of social skills you will achieve
a little less p a then if you'd maxed out ranks in basket-weave
That I'd rather eat an otyug may speak to my neurology
but the saranite is limited to healing methodology
the thought of picking any one of them's unbearable
Harsk is bad beyond the worst but every pregens terrible.
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Shardra (iconic Shaman) is my 'go to' 'Swiss Army Knife' support/heals character.
I try to play her whenever I need to play a pregen.
Quinn may seem complicated to folks (especially at L7), but a brand new player grabbed a Quinn at a local convention and proceeded to roflstomp 'Bacon Below' with a vengeance.
Played L4 Zadim when ACG first came out, it was a very interesting experience that helped me figure out some things for my -1, not a bad choice either.
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Venture-Agent, Minnesota
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Shardra is not a character that I'd hand off to newbies, but she's amazing. When people tell me that pregens are terrible, I point to Shardra, Quinn, Oloch and Crowe. Each one of them has been designed as solidly as a real character.
My experiences with the ACG pregens is that newcomers actually grasp Quinn, Oloch, Hakan, Adowyn and Crowe very quickly. Zadim is also a great choice for anyone who wants to two-weapon fight.
For the older ones, I'd still keep Kyra, Ezren, Seoni, Seelah and Amiri around. I absolutely adore Hayato, who is a social martial.
Hmm
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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Harsk gets a lot of laughs, but he saved our asses once. He made every saving throw against poison and was the only guy with a dedicated ranged plan when everyone was bogged down in a swamp and could barely move.
I think my main problem with most Core pregens is the fact that they're too underoptimised. Sure, you don't want to steal the PC's thunder, but they need to be able to pull their weight. Lem has maxed out Knowledge Nobility, a skill I've rarely seen rolled, and one other Knowledge. Sure, his Bardic Knowledge helps a bit, but even at level 7, that's only a +4 on most other Knowledges. Meanwhile, Hakon has a modest +7 on all Knowledges, but at least he has a decent shot of making his Knowledges.
I mean, the pregens are sort of what new players will see for the first time, and they'll want to model their character off of that. I know a guy who wanted to re-create Ezren for himself. While that's a decent character, there are a lot of hidden sub-optimal choices in that character. The Core pregens seem to be afraid of dumping something below 10. And while absolute dump stats are something I'd avoid teaching new players, they do illustrate that Pathfinder rewards optimalisation, not middle-of-the-road averageness. While most of the pregens aren't terrible, if you saw a PC like that, you'd have a word with him/her about his/her choices. The 10 CON Ninja is a recipe for disaster, and whenever I see her played, she goes down every single fight. I've actually chased away a player from Pathfinder because he insisted on playing the Ninja and kept falling unconscious every fight. He got visibly frustrated and I offered to switch pregens, but he didn't want to. Never seen him again at the table. Or the Samurai pregen with a Strength of 15. I've been in a scenario where his horse was more deadly than he was. And, for some reason, he has a WIS of 14 and a CON of 15. All valuable statpoints that could've made the pregen more capable.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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Shardra is not a character that I'd hand off to newbies, but she's amazing. When people tell me that pregens are terrible, I point to Shardra, Quinn, Oloch and Crowe. Each one of them has been designed as solidly as a real character.
My experiences with the ACG pregens is that newcomers actually grasp Quinn, Oloch, Hakan, Adowyn and Crowe very quickly. Zadim is also a great choice for anyone who wants to two-weapon fight.
For the older ones, I'd still keep Kyra, Ezren, Seoni, Seelah and Amiri around. I absolutely adore Hayato, who is a social martial.
Hmm
I was amazed at how well Quinn works. I looked at his stats and went "meh," but when someone picked him up at level 4, I was amazed at how well he worked in combat, despite lacklustre stats.
Shardra's a headache to wrap your head around, but she's an incredibly solid character and the best buffer next to a Bard or Skald. She has all the stats she needs and great spells prepared.My party last week (all pretty new) was waffling about which character to bring along. I suggested Hakon, and they grasped his abilities quickly. I had to remind them sometimes, but the +1 to hit, +1 to damage was easy enough to understand. And he's built in such a way that he's decent at melee, too. Nothing amazing, but a great secondary melee. Hakon threw 3 natural 20s in a row, of which 2 confirmed. 1 for max damage. That was a good time.
Oloch and Crowe are good heavy hitters. 2d6 hits hard at every level you play them as.
Zadim's ruthlessly efficient. I question his use of kukri (damn 1d4), but it works. Still think he would've been more efficient with a two-hander, but still. Way better at TWF than Valeros, though he has the disadvantage of not being able to skip the TWF prerequisite. That 15 DEX hurts his Strength.
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The ones I've had the best experience with are Hayato (Samurai), Kyra (Cleric), and Alahazra (Oracle). Seltiyel (Magus) doesn't look bad, at a glance either. Jirelle (Swashbuckler) is very playable, though she gets a very large boost as the lvl 4 pregen. Her level 1 isn't bad, but her levels 4 and 7 are actually pretty good.
As an aside, Hayato is not actually rules-compliant. His level 7 feat is Greater Weapon Focus, and that's only available at level 8.
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The ones I've had the best experience with are Hayato (Samurai), Kyra (Cleric), and Alahazra (Oracle). Seltiyel (Magus) doesn't look bad, at a glance either. Jirelle (Swashbuckler) is very playable, though she gets a very large boost as the lvl 4 pregen. Her level 1 isn't bad, but her levels 4 and 7 are actually pretty good.
As an aside, Hayato is not actually rules-compliant. His level 7 feat is Greater Weapon Focus, and that's only available at level 8.
There are a few pregens that have issues like that, actually.
There are a few pregens that have issues like that, actually.
I think its a symptom of making the character from 4 right of the bat, rather than starting at 1 and working up. I know I've taken a feat or two by accident on characters that they couldn't have gotten just because they qualified for it at the level I made them.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I like Zadim a lot either as a pregen for new players, or to fill out a table.
For new players, he's simple to play at each level, but he contributes well both in combat and with skills. It helps to make people feel like they're a full-worth member of the team.
When filling out a party, his asset is that he's so simple to play that he doesn't eat up your concentration while playing your prime character (or the GM's concentration, if he's running him).
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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Seelah is pretty solid. Good defense and offense. Smite gets you past situations where other pregens bemoan their lack of DR-penetrating weaponry.
Hakon is good for rounding out a party with skills and support. Decent spell selection, plausible knowledge skills, social skills, and he can fight.
Yoon or Adowyn to provide ranged damage support. If you have players who want to play an archer or blast things with fire these two can deliver.
Zadim 'will it blend' the slayer for players who want 2WF or just want an effective melee dude. He's got a high to-hit rate and lots of attacks which is just plain enjoyable.
Oloch or Crowe if you worry about DR/Hardness.
Kyra just cuz. Although the new oracle is also a good combo of healing and blasting.
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Designer
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While reading the new oracle it felt like the designer firmly decided to make a divine caster that was "not just a healbot", what with all the fire spells.
To be fair, they're mainly the flames mystery bonus spells, so she was going to have those no matter what, rather than being a decision when I built the prototype APG pregens or when Linda engineered the final build.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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While reading the new oracle it felt like the designer firmly decided to make a divine caster that was "not just a healbot", what with all the fire spells.To be fair, they're mainly the flames mystery bonus spells, so she was going to have those no matter what, rather than being a decision when I built the prototype APG pregens or when Linda engineered the final build.
Well, a good opening move helps a lot.
I think it's a good choice. It's a pregen that can contribute in multiple ways while remaining fairly simple.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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Not a complaint, more of an observation: Why does it seem like Paizo prefers to use Fire spells/themes? Kyra's Sun domain I understand flavourwise. She gets a few offensive goodies without stealing too much from the Sorcerer/Wizard list.
Then there's the Oracle, with almost the same basic background as Kyra: Born in a desert city, fire-based powers. With the enormous variety of Cleric domains and Oracle mysteries, why are there two fire-based divine casters? Again, it gives them the opportunity to blast a bit, which is fun, but that can also be done with other domains/mysteries. Most of the mysteries are equally complex, so there's no real reason why she can't have a different mystery (apart from Flames being the only blasty-mystery from the APG).
And then there's Yoon. From what I understand, Fire is a pretty "meh" element. Pretty much all of her talents are to make sure she pushes damage through. That's not a bad idea, in and of itself, but other elements have much more utility that Yoon seems to lack. Would that have made Yoon to complicated? I'm not sure. She already has a lot of options to choose from as-is.
Fire is the most flashy domain there is, but Kyra and Alahazra are sorta fighting in the same design space. When the APG came around, they couldn't retroactively change Kyra's domain anymore, but in that case, why not change Alahazra's background?
Again, this isn't meant as a complaint or a "boo, Paizo is lazy," more of a general wondering.
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The Magus has been surprisingly popular in our local scene lately. I chalk it up to the popularity of games like Witcher 3 and the desire to blend magic and swordplay on the same character.
Other than that, Kyra is a good filler and the Rogue and Bloodrager are popular among moderately experienced players who don't have anything in tier.
I carry a complete folder of pregens just to have them, but I will STRONGLY advise new players not to play the Fighter or the Ranger. I couple the Ninja and Rogue with disclaimers about their iffy, situational damage and squishy chasis.
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Venture-Agent, Minnesota
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Not a complaint, more of an observation: Why does it seem like Paizo prefers to use Fire spells/themes?
Quentin, you're not the only one who's wondered this.
I was kind of disappointed that the oracle was a flame oracle when Kyra already has fire spells. As cool as I think flame oracles are, I would have liked them to choose a different mystery to give new players some more options in divine spells.
I would have loved some more diversity for kineticist and oracle pregens.
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Battle -- Solid. A lot of newcomers like the idea of "fight and cast!"
Bones -- Perhaps rejected because of the "ick" factor.
Heavens -- GMs everywhere scream, "No, not color spray AGAIN!"
Life -- Solid, but perhaps too focused on healbot? Maybe they did not want to put Kyra out of business?
Lore -- A solid and fun choice! Casting and knowledge skills!
Nature -- I'm guessing they didn't want to deal with a horse or a camel here.
Stone -- This could have been another rock-solid choice... Who doesn't want to throw rocks, have crystal sight and earthglide?
Waves -- A fluid choice with some interesting possibilities
Wind -- Maybe a little underpowered at levels 1 and 4. Most of its really strong revelations seem to be at level 7 and up.
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I really wished they had picked a different element for the kineticist. As cool as fire is, it could have been fun to have an iconic centered around a different element.
Hmm
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Designer
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The Design Team isn't in charge of the backstories, and they aren't selected for mechanics. For instance, I'm guessing Shardra would be much more useful at 1st level as a life or heavens shaman (still taking wandering arcane enlightenment eventually) as well. The iconics are a higher level decision.
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Venture-Agent, Minnesota
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Thanks Mark for responding and offering your insights.
I do appreciate good backstories... I just also like variety in abilities amongst the pregens. As a GM, I love to offer newcomers options.
"This is Kyra! She's a divine caster who can heal and blast things with fire!"
"This is ... well this is the oracle whose name I cannot remember right now because I haven't played her yet. She's also a divine caster who can heal and blast things with fire!"
I love story. But I want there to be a good skeleton supporting all that fluff. Does this make sense?
Hmm
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Venture-Agent, Minnesota
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Another thing that my literally fevered ('cause I'm sick today) brain has come up with.
Rosc, when we're running quests at Anime Detour, we totally have to run one together with TEAM FIRE. Kyra, the "Oracle Whose Name I Cannot Remember (TM)" and Yoon. All the fire! All of it! It'll be a literal blast.*
Hmm
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*Because this is what we sometimes do late at night at cons in Minnesota. Run pregens with a theme. Nothing is funnier than an all Harsk table, but I think that the all fire group could be fun. Does anyone else have flames that we can call upon?