TriOmegaZero
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I don't believe the concealment lasts long enough to keep you in Stealth, if I am looking at the right item.
Edit: Found the updated version.
I see why you get different answers. I would run it as allowing a Stealth check, giving a chance at a sneak attack. However, it would only be for the first attack.
| Randir Raloqen |
Concealment doesn't give you sneak attack. Sneak attack is when they are counted as flat footed. Concealment just means that they have a hard time pinpointing where you are when they are attacking you giving them a chance to straight up miss you. Even with concealment they know roughly where you are, and can dodge when you attack them. Since they have that mobility they aren't counted as flat footed.
The only way I know of regaining sneak attack mid combat is through invisibility, or taking a turn or two to hide making them unable to find you. Though since they'd be on alert some GMs wouldn't count them as flat footed in such scenarios.
| Randir Raloqen |
Randir Raloqen wrote:Even with concealment they know roughly where you are, and can dodge when you attack them. Since they have that mobility they aren't counted as flat footed.Only if the attacker has not made a successful Stealth check.
I just checked. That is true, but it's at a -10 to the stealth check to hide during combat using concealment, and requires a distraction.
"Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast."
That is from the paizo reference site on stealth.
Cenorin
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I'm quite certain that partial concealment (20% miss chance) doesn't allow you to sneak attack by itself - the enemy can still see parts of you and so can react appropriately.
The rules regarding total concealment (50% miss chance) don't explicitly say you can sneak attack - for example, in complete darkness the rules say that you're denied your Dex bonus because you're effectively blind, not because your opponent has total concealment - but I think it's ambiguous enough that some GMs would allow it depending on the circumstances. For example, if you were to use Obscuring Mist with the mask to attack from total concealment, I'd probably allow it with a bow, but probably only on the first attack with a reach weapon - your opponent might not be able to see you, but he can see the tip of the spear you're wielding.
Bottom line: It might work sometimes, but I wouldn't build a character around doing this every fight. For PFS, I don't think the case is strong enough - too many GMs will rule against you. In a campaign, your GM might allow it, but if it turns out to be really effective I wouldn't be surprised if you suddenly find yourself fighting a lot of enemies with Uncanny Dodge or something else that lets them overcome it.
TriOmegaZero
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I'm quite certain that partial concealment (20% miss chance) doesn't allow you to sneak attack by itself - the enemy can still see parts of you and so can react appropriately.
No, it does not allow you to sneak attack by itself, but it does allow you to make a Stealth check, which then does allow sneak attack.
TriOmegaZero
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You can already do that.
When you start your turn using Stealth, you can leave cover or concealment and remain unobserved as long as you succeed at a Stealth check and end your turn in cover or concealment. Your Stealth immediately ends after you make an attack roll, whether or not the attack is successful (except when sniping as noted below).
Cenorin
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Randir Raloqen wrote:"Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth."This is all you need. The Bluff check is for when you do not have any cover or concealment to use.
Good points, Tri. I think you're right, but the text isn't super-clear about it. This goes back to my point about not basing a character on it - I don't think it's so obvious that I could sit down at any PFS table, show the GM that section of the rules, and be confident that that GM would almost always rule my way.